Tuesday, April 21, 2009

And They Claim That Black Male/White Female IR Is More Acceptable.

Over and over we keep hearing and reading the notion that interracial relationships between black men and white women are more acceptable. This assertion is most commonly made by the common black female IR bloggers who label their sites as black female empowerment blogs. This article tends to show this assertion to be quite false.

Black man kissing white woman causes stir

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

On the cover of today’s Go! magazine, a regular section of Friday’s Post-Dispatch, there is a photo of a couple kissing to go along with the story “The 7 Best Places To Smooch”. The story hasn’t generated a ton of buzz, but the photo has. Why? Because the man is black and the woman is white. The reader comments at the end of the online version clearly showed us that at least some folks out there are not comfortable with interracial relationships.
April 10's GO! cover of an interracial couple kissing generated unapproving comments from some readers.

The April 10 GO! cover generated disapproving story comments from some Post-Dispatch readers.

Here are a couple of examples:

From 1buschstadiumplz: “Haven’t read the story but dont like to see blacks and whites kissing;”

From taxpayer came this remark: ”This doesn’t surprise me at all. Libs take every opportunity they can to shove miscegnation in our faces. Now that TV has to show blacks in every commercial, notice that they are always posed beside a blonde woman. Not a brunette, a blonde. Its done for shock value. Sickening that a once proud newspaper would resort ot this. Joe Pulitzer is turning over in his grave in shame.”

Reader greggh tried a middle-of-the-road approach: “I’m not judging the concept of biracial couples at all, but in a city as racially polarized as St. Louis, I’m shocked that the PD would go so out of its way to be so gratuitously provacative. This completely undercut the message of the article.”
Other readers were disturbed by the negative comments including dwilliams, who wrote:
“You people make me sick! What a disgustingly racist community we live in. My husband is black, I am white, we have beautiful children and we are both educated. We teach our children tolerance and acceptance of others, even the meth smoking, trailer park rednecks portrayed in these comments. Keep your nastiness to yourself!”
We have deleted some of the comments that included offensive language because that is not appropriate or tolerated on the P-D blogs and we decided to limit comments on the photo to this blog.
I did some asking around in the newsroom about the decision to use the photo. Turns out that the couple is a real couple. The creative director of Go! knows the couple and asked them if they would pose for the story.
Quick research tells me that 7 percent of married couples are interracial and those numbers are growing as the minority groups in this country continue to grow. Tiger Woods, Halle Barry, Derek Jeter and President Barack Obama are all products of interracial parents.
It’s been almost 42 years since the U.S. Supreme Court knocked down a law barring interracial marriage. But today, at least in St. Louis, it seems to remain a touchy subject.

23 comments:

Una Persona said...

I am glad you posted this. They like to claim that whenever a bm / ww couple is shown everyone embraces it with open arms, yet anyone who has been in such a relationship can tell you differently. They will tell you of the nasty looks and treatment they get from racist people of both races. Sometimes the reaction is downright ominous - especially when it comes from certain kinds of white men.

I am sick of the persecution complex that some WoC/ WM couples carry around - acting like they are the only ones who have to deal with nasty people and rudeness and racism.

Ebony Intuition said...

I agree that bm/wm couples are not excepted with open arms. I think what people fail to realize is that men of other ethnics groups don't usually want their daughters dating or marrying black men "at all". I know a lot of people who's parents didn't approve of their children dating or marrying black men.

RainaHavock said...

Una and Ebony have already put it best for me so I'm good. :)

Anonymous said...

imagine if it were a white man and a black woman, oh wait we can't put that on a cover a magazine. atleast you get some representation, there's always going to be people who disaprove, but by and large, yes it is still far more accepted than bw/wm get over it. your argument is weak.

Anonymous said...

Una Persona said:

“I am sick of the persecution complex that some WoC/ WM couples carry around - acting like they are the only ones who have to deal with nasty people and rudeness and racism”.

Menelik says:

Una, you are unlikely to ever hear of a white man in a relationship with Black woman complaining about the occasional racial slurs, “curious” or “hateful” looks from Black men (or white women). Why not? Because white men are NOT traditionally America’s romantic martyrs and Black women are hardly their ‘forbidden fruit’.

IR bloggers like Evia and Sara who accuse Black men of colorism and/or racism in their dating choices are the true inheritors of the ‘only a Black woman’ mantra lest Black women’s sons, brothers etc are killed, tortured, maimed or jailed by envious white men.

This is history. This is fact. This is why IR bloggers omit history and omit facts from their rants since it tells the story of a brutal racial and sexual submission to a race of men they’re anxious to transform from symbolic rapists into romantic rescuers (anything to get back at Black men for rejecting them).

Unfortunately for them, history appears to have ‘de- femininised’ Black females and only added further to the masculine allure of Black males. IR bloggers, therefore, welcome opposition to relationships with white men not only so as to replace Black men as persecuted victims of racial and romantic martyrdom but also to acquire white women’s title of ‘fair maidens in distress’.

I once wrote that if IR bloggers had their way, they’d remake ‘Birth of a Nation’ with Angela Basset in the lead role being terrorised by a Black man, and with white men coming to her rescue! Anyway, the facts of history tell a story IR bloggers simply do not want to hear:

(1) that Black men and white women are America’s traditional ‘Romeo and Juliet’ coupling;

(2) that Black men are effectively white women’s ‘forbidden fruit’ and vice versa;

(3) that it was Black women and white men working together, for different reasons, to keep them apart;

(4) that the historical tragedies surrounding Black male-white female interactions are far greater than any Shakespearian fable.

(5) that the underlying, unspoken, assumption is that Black men are physically and aesthetically more ‘masculine’ than are white men, and white women are aesthetically and temperamentally more ‘feminine’ than are Black women.

The above assumptions are a double whammy to some Black women who now have to reckon with the unambiguously feminine charms of Bi-racial, light, Latino and Asian females as serious romantic contenders for Black men’s affections.

The result?

The sort of contemptuous racist responses from the likes of Evia and Sara (especially in her guise as “Harry Potter”) that we’ve read from white men in response to Go! Magazine’s cover pic! Hence, even as IR bloggers and supporters seek out ‘romantic’ unions with white men, they simply cannot resist racially “persecuting” Black men in similar unions with non-Black women! They will not let go…even when they allegedly don’t want us!

Mores the pity.

Menelik Charles

Anonymous said...

Umm Menelik Charles what was your point of that?

Exaplain why it was a WHITE man and BLACK woman who faught for Interracial Couples to get married in Virginia? Mr and Mrs.Loving ring a bell? Hell they have a day, June 12th. History always shows the little white girl wanting the black boy, but Black Women and White Men are there too, just not stated as much.


But to reply to the blog post, I do believe that Black Men and White Women are more accepted, Black Women get labled "sell out" while Black men don't. White Americans might not be as welcoming but the black community treats the bm/ww couples better than the bw/wm.

Rocky said...

Exaplain why it was a WHITE man and BLACK woman who faught for Interracial Couples to get married in Virginia?.

Because a black man would have trouble fighting for IR couples while hanging from a tree.

History always shows the little white girl wanting the black boy.

No it doesn't.

just not stated as much.

Some more nonsense you just made up.

I do believe that Black Men and White Women are more accepted.

Research doesn't support your belief. Note the parts in bold:

http://digital.library.unt.edu/permalink/meta-dc-2901:1

However, the women in the study “reported more negative prejudicial attitudes toward
interracial relationships than did men” (p. 350). The research suggested that social conditioning
could possibly be an explanation for the difference between men and women’s attitudes. These
findings are consistent with those of Todd et al. (1992) where attitudes were observed by
surveying 400 participants. The participants were asked to answer yes or no to being willing to
date someone outside of their race. Men’s attitudes toward dating someone outside of their
race were more positive than women.
Black women’s attitudes have been documented as being negative
.

Paset and Taylor (1991)
conducted a survey study among Black and White female college students. The survey asked
the participants to rate their attitudes towards interracial marriages between Blacks and Whites
.

Using a likert scale the respondents rated their response for the questions “what is your attitude toward a man of your race marrying a woman of a different race” and “what is your attitude
toward a woman of your race marrying a man of a different race” (p. 753). The scores of the Black women tended to cluster around the unfavorable end of the spectrum, while the opposite
was true for the White women.
The authors suggested, “black women perceive interracial
marriages of black men and women as substantively more threatening to their personal and
racial welfare than do white women” (Paset & Taylor, 1991 p.745). These attitudes may also
reflect what some Black women see as the decreasing number of available Black men or the
idea that races should not mix as far as marriages and relationships are concerned (Brown,
1987).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"Umm Menelik Charles what was your point...?

Explain why it was a WHITE man and BLACK woman who fought for Interracial Couples to get married in Virginia? Mr and Mrs.Loving ring a bell?"

Menelik replies:

I cannot explain why you use a SINGLE example to support your 'case' but I can turn your question around and, ask:

why was it deemed more acceptable for a Bw/wm couple to represent the case for mixed-race marriages than Bm/ww couplings?

Can you (will you) answer this question, sweety?

Menelik Charles
London England

Ps the Lovings "fought" for their right to marry, if I'm correct, not for those of other mixed-race couples. But do correct me if I'm wrong.

Anonymous said...

BlueEyez39 over at the Inter-racial Dating Blog on April 7th, 2009 at says:

"As a white woman who dates black men, I have been amazed by the “hatred”, for lack of a better word, that has been directed our way when we are out on the town. This is 2009, I’m thinking. We are all human. Really we all want the same things: to be loved, to be respected, to have somebody celebrating with us when times are good and commiserating with us when times are bad. What does skin color have to do with that?"

menelik said:

this white woman was not specific about which group(s) directed the "hate" at her but we can take a guess!

menelik charles
london england

Una Persona said...

Exaplain why it was a WHITE man and BLACK woman who faught for Interracial Couples to get married in Virginia? Mr and Mrs.Loving ring a bell? Hell they have a day, June 12th. History always shows the little white girl wanting the black boy, but Black Women and White Men are there too, just not stated as much.
of course it had to be a couple involving a white man to overturn the laws against mixed marriages because obviously WM held more power than BM. BM in IRRs in those days risked being lynched.

Such laws were created by white men in the first place, so it isn't real wonder that it took the changing interests of white men to get the laws changed. As long as it wasn't in the interest of white men to do so the laws would not have changed.

The only famous and romanticized historical accounts that I know of about IR couples involve white men. ( Pocahantas and John Smith, John Rolfe. Jefferson and Sally Hemming (gag) )

Anyway, I have some close friends who are in IRs (WoC with White men and WW with Men of color) either way they have to deal with racist people. So WM / WoC couples moaning as if they are the only ones need to wake up. Especially since, judging from the talk coming from some such couples on certain sites is seems obvious some of them are the ones giving nasty looks / treatment to WW /BM couples, which is really sad since they should have more in common with such couples, if they even bothered to get to know them.


Ebony intuition is right, men of most ethnic groups tend be kind of possessive of their women and don't like to see them with black men. Such couples deal with a lot of hating from other people.

Ana said...

What I find strange and I feel some should learn is that most men do not insult and degrade their own women.Most men understand pretty well that disrespecting their own women robbed them of natural male power.

You see some things are understood and are a given ;real men are those who protect their own women.
A man who cannot protect his own woman is not consider a universal man and does not look good in the eyes of outsiders.

Most men believe their women are the best because it is part of the innner nationalist fervor (this is natural as breathing across cultures)that is naturally ingrained in most people. Little boys in most cultures are brought up with duties to love, protect and defend their national sisters.



I love the movie Ghandi;there is a part where an Indian nationalist said he was not going to tolerate the British disrespecting Indian women.

On the Spanish tv program, "Caso Cerrado", a young Puerto Rican woman brought her case for the judge to arbiter. The Puerto Rican woman was dating an African American man and her father disapproved of the relationship.

The Puerto Rican father's response was that his daughter was the best thing he had and he did not want her to be wih an African American man because he felt they did not treat their women well.

When the judge asked the African American man to step up and defend himself to win the father's approval, to everyone's surprise the boyfrend was a tall blue eyed biracial man(half black,half German) who looked white.
The Puerto Ricans were Indian looking mestizos. But this was not a race issue, but a cultural one.

I watched sadly as this handsome man tried to convince the Puerto Rican father how much he loved his daughter.
The arbiter and host of the program in the young man's defense innocently sounded racist when she told the father, "this man(reffering to the appearance of African American man) is not even black".
But what really won over the Dad was when he saw tears on both his daughter and the boy friend's faces. Then he was convinced it was true love. The case ended when the father told the young man that he gave him his consent and they all embraced.

Those men who defend and protect their own women will always look good across the board to most people.

Most men at first glance may not like to see their women with foreign men. But one thing, most good men approve wholeheartedly of their daughters,blood sisters and ethnic sisters marrying good men of any race or ethnic group.

Ana

Anonymous said...

Ana

I'm sure you're a real sweety but I'm not sure what the point of the piece above is about. Is this a knock at Black men or simply a defence of ir relationships?

LorMarie said...

Even I will admit that black men/non black women face more hostility in the west. When I compare the experiences of myself, brother, and other black men/women I know, it is clear that black men/ww couples are less acceptable. The Southern Poverty Law Center will confirm that. In an interview with Morris Dees, he stated that racists and hate groups almost never target bw/wm like they do and have bm/ww. While I agree with Evia, Sara, and all the other IR bloggers in principle, they need to realize that it is a privilege that black women have to date/marry IR without the potential hostilities/violence that may occur.

LorMarie said...

imagine if it were a white man and a black woman, oh wait we can't put that on a cover a magazine. atleast you get some representation, there's always going to be people who disaprove, but by and large, yes it is still far more accepted than bw/wm get over it. your argument is weak.

April 22, 2009 9:49 PM--Anon

Do you honestly believe what you are saying? Bm/ww more accepted? Please. I see many more wm/nonwhite woman (including black women) images in the mainstream media than the other way around.

How many black female Emmit Tills can you name? How many white men were lynched for having sex with their black maids (during Jim Crow).

lormarie said...

Menelik, you are truly living in a dream world. The black man's allure? Do you honestly believe that? The primary image of black men is that of a criminal. White men are the ones with the allure in the eyes of most. White women come in behind them. You appear to have angst similar to what you accuse IR bloggers. Being a black woman isn't easy but I'd much rather be a bw in the west than a bm. Whether you admit it or not, life is easier on ALL fronts for bw.

Lastly, the primary problem for bw throughout history and today is not defeminization but the jezebel/lose woman type image. That's why you see things like the rape of slaves romanticized in the media. Your problem is that you see black women catching onto white male worship and it kills you. If you didn't see these blogs as a true threat, you wouldn't be posting about them. Honestly, what are you really afraid of?

Truth B. Told said...

What I find strange and I feel some should learn is that most men do not insult and degrade their own women.Most men understand pretty well that disrespecting their own women robbed them of natural male power.

Sad, but true, men oppress women all over the world. Some men and some forms are more harsher than others, but it is still oppression.

You see some things are understood and are a given ;real men are those who protect their own women.
A man who cannot protect his own woman is not consider a universal man and does not look good in the eyes of outsiders.

Most men believe their women are the best because it is part of the innner nationalist fervor (this is natural as breathing across cultures)that is naturally ingrained in most people. Little boys in most cultures are brought up with duties to love, protect and defend their national sisters
.

I have a 21st century mindset. Men don't own women. Women are not property. Also outsiders don't give a hoot how other men treat "their" women. Outsiders take advantage of groups that they can take advantage of regardless.

I love the movie Ghandi;there is a part where an Indian nationalist said he was not going to tolerate the British disrespecting Indian women.

Perfect example. The British Empire colonized India along with much of the rest of the world because they could, not because they "mistreated their women". Also like I said, men oppress women all over the world. Before the British Empire, the Indians used to practice Sati. Though illegal, it still occurs.

On the Spanish tv program, "Caso Cerrado", a young Puerto Rican woman brought her case for the judge to arbiter. The Puerto Rican woman was dating an African American man and her father disapproved of the relationship.

The Puerto Rican father's response was that his daughter was the best thing he had and he did not want her to be wih an African American man because he felt they did not treat their women well.
I don't respect the opinion of someone who judges people as an entire group and not as an individual.

But what really won over the Dad was when he saw tears on both his daughter and the boy friend's faces. Then he was convinced it was true love. The case ended when the father told the young man that he gave him his consent and they all embraced.

Of course I did not see the show you are referring to, but hopefully the father based it on the man being good and not the man looking white.

Those men who defend and protect their own women will always look good across the board to most people.

And what group can honestly claim this? Even in America, I believe about 1 in 6 women will be raped in her lifetime and mostly by someone of the same race. 73% of victims know their assailant and only 6% of rapists will spend a day in jail.

(courtesy of http://www.rainn.org/statistics)

One could argue that it is better to get raped in Beverly Hills than in Baghdad, Iraq but I don't think the Beverly Hills victim would find much solace in that.

Most men at first glance may not like to see their women with foreign men. But one thing, most good men approve wholeheartedly of their daughters,blood sisters and ethnic sisters marrying good men of any race or ethnic group.

I agree.

Truth B. Told said...

How many black female Emmit Tills can you name?

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/lynchingera.html

Two things to note. First, most lynchings of Black men were not about White women. Even the ones about White women were not really about White women.

Secondly, read about Mary Turner.

It should be remembered that it was not only Black men who were killed during this era. The lynching of Mary Turner best illustrates this. Turner, a pregnant Black woman, was lynched in Valdosta, Georgia in 1918. Turner was tied to a tree, doused with gasoline and motor oil and burned. As she dangled from the rope, a man stepped forward with a pocketknife and ripped open her abdomen in a crude Cesarean operation. A news reporter who witnessed the killing wrote, "Out tumbled the prematurely born child. Two feeble cries it gave---and received for the answer the heel of a stalwart man, as life was ground out of the tiny form." "

Truth B. Told said...

Being a black woman isn't easy but I'd much rather be a bw in the west than a bm. Whether you admit it or not, life is easier on ALL fronts for bw.I won't admit it because it is far from true. It is much easier to be a BM, especially a successful BM than a BW.

Black women are among the poorest people in the country. Though BW obtain more degrees than BM, the vast majority of Blacks and BW do not have one. And Black men outearn Black women at comparable educational levels.

Even though there are bad stereotypes about BM, at least there are some stereotypes that make Black men desirable.

And race aside, men's pool of mates get bigger as they get older, and women's pool get smaller.

I never hear Black men complaining about their ability to get married.

While a successful Black man will be highly desired by the opposite sex, the same cannot be said for a successful Black female. Otherwise women like Oprah or Condoleeza Rice would have long lines of suitable mates pursuing them.

Anonymous said...

Post a Comment On: Black Women's Interracial Relationship Circle

BWF said:

"I find white and Latin men more attractive then black men".

LorMarie said:

"I co-sign 300% Especially Latin men...Black men generally just don't appeal to me as far as looks and sex appeal".

Menelik replies:

I've often wondered how you rate Latin and white women compared to African-American women in terms of looks and femininity!

I await an interesting, though possibly, convoluted answer, my BAP lol

Menelik Charles
London England

Anonymous said...

Menelik said:

Unfortunately for IR bloggers, history appears to have ‘de- femininised’ Black females and only added to the masculine allure of Black males.

The result?

The sort of contemptuous racist responses from...IR bloggers who seek out ‘romantic’ unions with white men...but cannot resist racially “persecuting” Black men in similar unions with non-Black women!

They will not let go…even when they allegedly don’t want us!

LorMarie replied:

"The black man's allure? Do you honestly believe that? The primary image of black men is that of a criminal. White men are the ones with the allure in the eyes of most".


Menelik replies:

not sure what you were reading above but your response appears not to be dealing with what I actually wrote!

Menelik wrote:

history appears to have ‘de- femininised’ Black females and only added to the masculine allure of Black males.

Clearly I was contrasting Black women's de-femininised status with Black men's hyper masculine image.

Let go, babe...please!

Menelik Charles
London England

Anonymous said...

LorMarie said:

Even I will admit that black men/non black women face more hostility in the west.


Menelik replied:

you mean even YOU won't/can't deny it!

Menelik Charles
London

Anonymous said...

All I can say is thank GOD I'm not a Black man! They whine and bitch too much.

black singles said...

Great thing you shouted it out here! I've been reading some issues about interracial dating nowadays and we can't deny the fact that some of them are not in favor with this kind of relationship.

For me whatever others say about me and husband I won't mind them what matters most is that we both happy eventhough we came from different races.