Sunday, December 19, 2010

The Socialization of Black Boys


I was reading a very interesting book entitled "The Origins of War in Child Abuse" by Lloyd deMause. The book is provided free online at the link. It basically proclaims that the violent behavior exhibited so often by men is not be the result of higher testosterone levels as has been the common belief, but rather due to the childhood conditioning that they commonly receive from their mothers:


"The only neurobiological condition inherited by boys that affects later violence
is they have a smaller corpus callosum, the part of the brain that connects the
right and the left hemisphere.16 The larger corpus callosum of infant girls
allows them to work through trauma and neglect more easily than boys.
Furthermore, boys who are abused had a 25 percent reduction in sections of the
corpus callosum, while girls did not.17 This means boys actually need more love
and caretaking than girls as they grow up. If they do not receive enough
interpersonal attention from their caretakers they suffer from damaged
prefrontal cortices (self control, empathy) and from hyperactive amygdalae (fear
centers), their corpus callosum is reduced further, and they have reduced
serotonin levels (calming ability) and increased corticosterone production
(stress hormone). All these factors make them have weak selves, reduced empathy,
less control over impulsive violence and far more fears than girls.18"



So as we see, for neurobiological reasons, boys are in greater need of love and caregiving than girls. This brings up the question of whether they actually receive such greater love and caregiving:


"The central psychobiological question, then, is this: Are boys given more love
and attention than girls by their caretakers in order to help them offset their
greater needs? The answer, of course, is just the opposite: boys are given less
care and support, from everyone in the family and in society, and they are
abused far more than girls, so by the time they are three years of age they
become twice as violent as girls.19 Boys’ greater violence by this time,
including their propensity to form dominance gangs and to endlessly “play war,”
are the results of their greater abuse and distancing by adults and being
subject to demands to “grow up” and “be manly” and “not be a crybaby” and not
need attachments—attitudes taught by their parents, teachers and coaches. By age
four boys’ play is full of provocations that test their self-worth: “At 4 years
of age, girls’ insults to one another are infrequent and minor…Boy/boy insults,
however, are numerous and tough.”20 The so-called “aggressiveness” usually
ascribed to boys is in fact wholly defensive, as they try to ward off their
greater feelings of insecurity and hopelessness.21 It isn’t “aggression” males
display; it’s bravado—defensive testing and disproof of their fears."
So as one might clearly suspect, boys are typically shown less affection and given less support than girls. Such lesser affection probably comes from both mothers and fathers, yet that which comes from mothers is most important:


"The mother, of course, is the focal point of this widespread distancing and
insecure attachment pattern. High levels of violence and of testosterone have
been shown to be associated with poorer relationships with mothers, not fathers,
since mothers are the primary caretakers in most families (even in America
today, fathers spend only an average of eleven minutes a day with their
children).22 It is not just genetics but more importantly maternal environment
that Tronick and Weinberg blame when they see from their studies that “Infant
boys are more emotionally reactive than girls. They display more positive as
well as negative affect, focus more on the mother, and display more signals
expressing escape and distress and demands for contact than do girls.”23 This is
because from infancy boys are expected to “just grow up” and not need as much
emotional care as girls—indeed, boys are regularly encouraged not to express any
of their feelings, since this is seen as “weak” or “babyish” in boys.24 While
mothers may sometimes dominate their little girls and expect them to share their
emotional problems, they distance their boys by not making contact with them and
expect them to “be a man.” This begins from birth: “Over the first three months
of life, a baby girl’s skills in eye contact and mutual facial gazing will
increase by over 400 percent, whereas facial gazing skills in a boy during this
time will not increase at all.”25 Boys grow up with less attachment strengths
because careful studies show that mothers look at their boys less, because both
parents hit their boys two or three times as much as they do their girls,
because boys are at much higher risk than girls for serious violence against
them, and because boys are continuously told to be “tough,” not to be a “wimp”
or a “weakling,” not to be “soft” or a “sissy.”26"
Here is more good information on the subject:



"Perhaps because boys’ needs are greater than girls’, harried and often depressed
mothers give them less love and attention from birth. Careful studies reveal
that mothers look at and talk more with their daughters than with their sons,
spend more time interacting with them, smile more at their daughters than at
their sons, direct more orders and prohibitions toward their sons, and use more
severe disciplinary styles and more shaming techniques toward them.50

If they are ashamed of what their mothers have taught them they are and by their continuing need for her understanding, they “learn to suffer quietly, in retreat behind the mask of masculinity [and] cover up the more gentle, caring, vulnerable sides of themselves.”63 If, of course, they are brought up with love and care, like my sons—and probably like yours—they grow up neither violent nor war lovers. But abandoned and abused boys regularly hide their shame and fears behind a defensive fantasy of grandiosity, dominance and violent bravado.64 The violence they exhibit both kills other Bad Selves (called “enemies”), who like themselves are seen as both angry and weak, plus it provokes the violence of others, inviting self-destructive, suicidal responses. Confrontation, “carrying a chip on their shoulders,” is their defense against admitting that they feel weak, rejected and worthless.65"

So how does all of this relate to the excessive violence that is so prevalent among black men? Is the lack of affection and support received by black men greater than that of other men. One study entitled Parent-child Play: Descriptions and Implications, does address this basic idea:

Blacks:
1) Infants are doted on; much attention to food and clothes.
2) But 'most black women believe the children are easily spoiled by too much attention including being held, carried, and praised.'
3) Infants are often left unattended for long periods of time. Black infants forced to be autonomous earlier than other groups.
4) Teenage pregnancy is tolerated but mother soon becomes disinterested in baby and grandmother takes over most of the care.
5) High levels of physical discipline, including 'shaking and spanking, often with belts and switches.'

Cuban-Americans
1) Teenage pregnancy not sanctioned. High rate of abortions.
2) Infants are the center of attention of entire extended household.
3) Infants are carried everywhere and rocked a great deal, are scolded infrequently, and are seldom physically punished.


More details of the study can be found here. The trends shown by the study applies to both teenage and adult mothers.

So this leaves the final question of whether there is a difference between the affection level given black girls and black boys. For a couple of decades, the idea that black mothers love their boys and raise their daughters has made it into black folklore, despite there being no empirical evidence to support this notion. One study finally takes a look at it with the following results:

'While no differences were found in the way that the mother uses control with her children, the mother did appear to have a more warm and guiding-producing relationship with her daughter. This finding runs contrary to the stereotype that the “African American mother ‘loves’ her son, but ‘raises’ her daughter.”'


So the evidence seems to say that boys are shown less affection and support than girls, black mothers show less affection and support to their young children than other groups and black boys receive less affection and support than black girls. While numerous other factors certainly are among the reasons why black males today show so much excessive violence, evidence does support that lesser attention and affection from their mothers at an early age could play a major role in this.

113 comments:

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

excellent post and thanks for the links....

I have thought about this for a very long time. Why myself (and other men in my family, or close friends) have such hard times accepting being real with ourselves outside of keeping each other in check (its easy to tell someone ELSE about their flaws) and feeling our feelings as human beings. Our upbringings do play a role.

The dynamics mentioned in the book, about how boys tend to be taught to be perception dependent/controlling (aka made into narcissists, "you are not worthy b/c your a "punk," "sissy,"etc) is so true amongst black men today that it bothers the hell out of me. A few of my homies and I talked about how dudes who are the most cold killers, or toughest around are really soft children on the inside reacting to a lack of love.

One thing that stands out to me, is that if girls are brought up with more love (on average) but fail to raise their own children, especially the boys, in a manner that suits them, is it by pure socialization or the mothers own reactive desires to her lack of alternative.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

I had to come back to this b/c this post is spot on in some many ways and it implies alot about the past generations,ourselves, and our futures.

Rocky said...

I agree. It does imply much about society and it holds so much relevance to black America today. I think that this book is very important.

Ty said...

Good blog post brotha.

I got a son with a woman who don’t know how to act right and just basically neglects him

NYC is hard ass hell on fathers, especially black ones. My fiance and I are getting married soon and we plan on going for full custody of him because I don’t want my little man to be treated badly by his bitter ass mother.

My finace is much better with him and she has much more patience and is caring and understanding with him. I almost feel left out when they are together, lol.

This was a good post. I think that these women are bitter and upset about getting dumped or whatever and they take it out on the kids or just don’t have the time to care like that compared to other women who probably don’t work a lot and have more time to spend with their kids.

My mom was a single one and she tried her hardest to spend time with us but it just wasn’t always possible when you’re working 2 jobs and stuff. I had an uncle who was there to teach me the ropes and stuff but my mom just couldn’t be. She was a good mom though and always made sure I had what I need and now we spend a lot more time together.

Menelik Charles said...

Bro Rocky,

The general idealisation of the mother has worked against Black men for generations insofar as when one offers the slightest criticism of Black female behaviour or attitude one is often accused of hating one's mother! Funny how one can say what one pleases about "no good" Black men if one is female but rarely, if ever, are they accused of hating their fathers (the irony, of course, is they are often taught this very thing by their mothers!).

This is because the image of father is kept well within the human realm while women take on the title of 'Mother of Christ' the moment she gives birth.

Thus, there is no shame, or feelings of disloyalty, when one checks some "no good nigger" male (it's always open season on Black males) but dare one have the temerity to challenge a Black woman then suddenly one becomes a mother-hating (and by extension, woman-hating), stalker, who can't get any pussy!

Oh, the uses and abuses of the shaming sentiment lol

However, thanks to blogs like this, and to 'Trojan horses' like sisters like Rashida and Kigali, the mystique of Black matriarchal power is being challenged wherever its power is exercised - and much to the horror of matriarchs like the the 'something screwed crew'.

This is all said, the mistreatment and general neglect of Black boys (and our beautiful girls) will not cease until a plan is devised (and one has been) to re-Africanise slave-descended Africans, and thereby placing the father, once again, at the centre of the home.

The alternative is to carry on down a road devised by our racial enemies, and perpetuated by these utterly bamboozled "strong" (read unfeminine, arrogant, selfish and self-loathing) Black women.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Anonymous said...

I am not going to argue with the points in your essay.

I will say that if black women are inadequate to the task of "socializing" black boys into responsible men than black fathers should take custody of their sons by any means necessary.

I know it takes money to hire an attorney to obtain custody of a child from the mother but it's still up to the MEN to turn the ship around.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

You couldnt begin to argue the points because you dont even understand them. This isnt about womem failing to do a man's job this is about black women failing to do her mothering, her nurturing simple because she is unable to bond with her own son.

Did you notice the parts where it compared black women to white women? I know you guys hate that. This isnt about black mothers failing to do well what black men arent doing at all. Its about black women not even doing what other mothers are documented as doing quite frequently.

Kigali

Rashida said...

Happy Holidays Everyone!

Rocky, this post is so timely as I am currently taking mommy classes. I decided to enroll because a)I wanted to meet other moms that had infant children since most of my friends have kids that are at least 4 or 5 and b)I wanted to hear from trained professionals about what they feel is the disconnect between children and their parents these days.

While I always felt that I would make a great mother, I can't tell you how much these classes have helped me! Not just with simple things like properly taking an infant's temperature or how to handle a gas-y or colic-y baby but also how to really foster a bond early on and show my child through touch how much she is loved. I had a wonderful mother but she worked outside the home my entire life. She can barely remember what it was like to have a baby. She was not there for so many moments in my baby and toddlerhood. Moments that I am looking forward to witnessing firsthand with my own child.

As far as black boys go, I think I have stated either on your blog or Laurelton's about not only the neglect of black boys by their own mothers but also the abuse and belittlement many black boys face at the hands of little black girls in school and other social settings. These girls are picking up on cues from their mothers' treatment of older men. If a boy is not clearly an "alpha" he is ridiculed.

Mind you the BWE bloggers always compain about little black girls being "at risk" for male predators yet they never give credence to the fact that little black boys are also at very high risk. Ask most men who grew up in the hood how old their first sexual partner was and most will say she was at least 17/18 or sometimes even older. Mind you these boys are having sex at 10 years old with 20 year old women sometimes! Where is the "protection" from predators for these boys? I can guarantee you that any boy who loses his virginity at 10 or 12 is bound to end up a baby daddy before he turns 20. Black boys are just as much at risk. Just because boys get horny doesn't mean they should be taken advantage of by the neighborhood cougar.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@Menelik Charles,

I think that the black male idealization of the mother figure,worship of the woman,etc is a direct result of the improper way he was brought up. Men who are brought up in more emotionally whole fashions dont seem to have these problems. What do you think??

I think it is similar to how gay men are created (many "thugs" are gay, according to my pops), the idealization of male love they did not get as children.

Rashida said...

@Menelik Charles

One of the things I have noticed with fatherless BM (or BM that had "rolling stone" kind of Daddies) is that their upbringings were mainly centered around pleasing the women in their femily. Momma, grandma, sister, auntie, etc. They become SO good at catering to women that they actually become the most sought-after men in the black community.

Women with poor communication skills (bickering, arguing and throwing a fit) flock to these men because these men know exactly what every roll of the neck means. They have seen it through and through and are so used to the psychological abuse (yes, I said it, women with "attitudes" are ABUSIVE and literally destroying the men unfortunate enough to be in their lives)that they replace other more healthy ways of defining their masculinity with their ability to "tame a sista". This leads to them being far less productive than men who do not have to deal with beligerent women. If you have a "special needs" child you are going to spend more time on that kid than a normal child. Same goes for relationships. If you are dating women who are "special needs cases" then that is going to take away from your ability to produce and provide. This is the #1 reason why succesful men tend to pick black American women last. Almost ALL men know that dealing with your typical black American woman means spending a little less time on yourself and more time on her. Yet black women are the loudest about not being able to find men that make a decent amount of money not even realizing that their own behaviors are what keep them with the fatherless, broke, unassimilated Ray Ray and Pookie.

This is why when black women encounter men who KNOW that their attitudes are bad they point to their complexion or noses or hair or degree to try and deflect.

If a man is dating or married to a woman who understands that her attitude, the way she talks to him, the way she discusses sensitive matters with him is of the utmost importance then he usually won't have much to worry about in that area. As a wife I realize that my husband can pretty much handle whatever I bring to him but the difference in whether it gets handled or not is usually 98% up to me. How do I let him know what I need without making him feel like it's his fault I don't have it. It's a delicate balance but if you want to be a good wife, it's one of the most important tools you have to get what you want at the end of the day.

I say all this to say that many black men are able to overcome Mama's neglect by marrying a woman who has all the qualities necessary to help him realize his power as a man separate from his female relatives. This is why so many black women stick their noses in the relationships of black men because they know that if black men get just a taste of companionship with a normal, healthy, sane woman they will NEVER look back.

I have a lot of black female friends and all I'm gonna say is that sistas KNOW that the attitude thing is real. In private they will admit it and brag about it and laugh about it. But when confronted with a brother who decided to leave all that behind (in an IR union or not) they deflate. BW's arrogance is incredible and IR dating is a slap in the face to BW thinking we're "top dog" and can be however we want to be and still have a good man waiting to fix things.

Anonymous said...

Kigali said:
"You couldnt begin to argue the points because you dont even understand them. This isnt about womem failing to do a man's job this is about black women failing to do her mothering, her nurturing simple because she is unable to bond with her own son."

Me:
Like I said. "If black women are failing to do her mothering", the responsible thing for a black father to do would be to go to court and get custody of his son and RAISE HIS SON HIMSELF.

I'm proposing a real solution to a real problem: the socialization of black boys. All you want to do is blame black women for EVERY bad thing that happens in so-called "black communities". Either sh!t or get off the pot (toilet).

If the mother is not a good mother, take custody of your child AND RAISE IT YOURSELF or else shut up!

A man who KNOWS the mother of his child is inadequate to the task of being a good mother and still does NOTHING about it except call her names behind her back is a spineless coward. And he is NO BETTER than she is.

Anonymous said...

Idk what you are trying to get at Rocky.

The fact is majority of black mothers are single ones and they don’t have the time to do what other mothers do.

They work outside of home more and don’t have the privilege of having a husband to pick up any financial slack. They also don’t have the privilege like ww and aw of men who on average make more money and can afford to keep them home with the kids.

I cant count how many ww I know are stay at home moms.
I wish my mother could have been one.

Black mothers try their best but when you are mommy, daddy, sole provider and head of the household. Shit aint easy and people need to understand that.
Yeah most bw wish they could be at home with their kids more, no bw I know says she doesn’t want to be at home with her kids more but bills need to be paid and babies need shoes, clothes and food.

The blog didn’t take that into consideration.
Attention and time are two things bw cant give to their kids like other mothers and maybe that’s not helping but what are we to do?

@ Rashida

that’s nice and all what your talking about but that shit about being a good mom is false. I hope you don’t have a daughter.

Ill leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

You said; "If black women are failing to do her mothering", the responsible thing for a black father to do would be to go to court and get custody of his son and RAISE HIS SON HIMSELF.

They won't do this because it would mean taking responsibility themselves and they wouldn't have the mother to blame if something goes wrong.

I've noticed two things about conversations like this--

1). They all involve blaming black single mothers for the advancement of black boys while NOT acknowledging that black girls are for the most part neglected too--reflected by teen pregnancy rate--therefore it's not a situation where one is receiving some type of "special treatment."

2). Almost all of the people doing the blaming either don't have children or are deadbeat fathers who refuse to take custody of their children if the mother is so horrible.

These fathers would far rather talk about the poor job their single babymama is doing than actually move to help her with the situation or go for custody of their children.

And the people who don't have children have no clue what it takes to raise, feed, love, and take care of a child completely on their own. It's easy for them to look and say "you're doing so and so wrong" because they aren't the individuals doing the job and who have the responsibility of doing the job.

@Rashida

You said; "This is the #1 reason why succesful men tend to pick black American women last. Almost ALL men know that dealing with your typical black American woman means spending a little less time on yourself and more time on her."

No offense--but you are REALLY ignorant. I guess things such as racism, preference, culture, poor selection of men within their race, or successful black men only being a catch in their own heads, etc have nothing to do with black women WORLD WIDE being picked last??? Stop generalizing. What you said here is your biased opinion of a MUCH larger problem than what you tried to summarize. It doesn't hold water when you consider black women are the number one unmarried people world wide--that's right it's not just an African American woman issue.

Cont'd

You said; "As far as black boys go, I think I have stated either on your blog or Laurelton's about not only the neglect of black boys by their own mothers but also the abuse and belittlement many black boys face at the hands of little black girls in school and other social settings. These girls are picking up on cues from their mothers' treatment of older men. If a boy is not clearly an "alpha" he is ridiculed."

Little black boys face more ridicule from OTHER BLACK BOYS than they do from black girls. No one owes anyone their affection. If little black girls are into the "alpha" types--which is common from all girls-- rather than all others that's their decision. Just like it's little black boys decision to only pursue the prettiest girls over all others. However it seems black girls aren't allowed to have preferences. They must like little black boys simply because they are BLACK.

I've noticed on thing from years of dating--black men have the hardest time with rejection--especially if it's coming from a black woman.

If things get out of hand and name calling starts whose fault is that? If I tell him no and he calls me a bitch which makes me shout "corny asshole" whose fault is that?

I can't imagine things being any different for little black boys. They must be taking their cues from older black men. They need to learn to accept rejection and move on.

Andrew said...

This was an interesting post.

I was watching on Netflix a documentary called I think "little girls". It chronicles black girls entering prostitution in NYC and the non for profit program "GEMS' I think it was in New York.

The average age of a girl going into prostitution was 13 or 14.

Your post was very interesting because Law enforcement arrested these two black men for videotaping the exploitation of these little black girls. They were grown men like in their late 20s.

They would say things like I am your daddy or we are a family to the girls. There was a certain amount of cruelness in the videos also. The videos show the "honeymoon period" and the pimping afterward.

But if you listen to the young black girls in the videos. They are even perceptive enough to see that they felt "he needed me". They can even see the "weaknesses" in these grown men at 13 or 14. I remember one of the girls said I figure if " I prostitute we can both can get something to eat". "If I don't, we would be starving".

I would have to agree that black mothers "indirectly" pass on this need to sort of "mother" their boyfriends. I am not blaming the mothers because women can only raise boys to a "certain degree".

However, the way a mother "allows" herself to be "treated" can have a great impact.

Let me continue on.

Andrew said...

I remember dating this woman in the Bronx and her daughter is 11 or 12.

Long story short, we was in my car. She says " my daughter, I gave up on her ass". I said "why are you giving up"?

She said "my daughter is hanging out with these boys out here". She could be having "sex for all I know, while I am at work".

Mind you, she "herself" had her daughter young and ran away with the "father" from her nice upstate home in New York. It wasn't like she was raised in the "hood". She currently resides "in the hood" for her bad decisions and 3 kids (just had another baby) the father of that baby is gone too.

I ain't tell her that. I just sort of listened to her. I said "don't give up on your daughter". Once you do that, she will "just get bolder". Black mothers and daughters always seem to "fallout" during the teenage years.

By the way, she was loose herself. She "appeared innocent and respectable" but she was loose. Sometimes the apple does not fall far from the tree. LOL

She is grown, she can do what she wants to do. I just had a problem with her giving up on her daughter.

It is imperative to have fathers around. Especially, for daughters when possible. Because what you got here is girls looking for any "type of attention".

When you got girls looking for attention. The black boys don't feel the need to try hard in relationships, raising kids, or families. Their like "oh she will do it all". Plus, I got other women that will do it too.

I observe pop culture. You got a kid named Travis Porter ( I guess he is the modern day "Luke). He has teenage black girls grinding, showing their breasts and getting naked on stage at a "teen concert".

Maybe I am getting old. LOL I cringe when I see this. But I grew up during the "Luka era" with the booty shaking and etc. I thought it was fun at the time. Black bike week , freaknik.

I just feel like things have changed dramatically. I can't put my finger on it. A female friend of mind said its not funny anymore. There is a certain amount of anger. That cuts across all races of men.

There is more aggression, could be insecurity I don't know.

MMA is a rising sport. It wasn't that popular years ago. Now it is like pro wrestling and boxing.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

"So as one might clearly suspect, boys are typically shown less affection and given less support than girls."

What about a single black mothers hectic schedule would led her to treat her children differently based on gender? Does she have more time for the female children but less time for the male children?

Then there is this, "'While no differences were found in the way that the mother uses control with her children, the mother did appear to have a more warm and guiding-producing relationship with her daughter. This finding runs contrary to the stereotype that the “African American mother ‘loves’ her son, but ‘raises’ her daughter.”'

So even if black mothers were SAHM she would still have a tendency to treat her children differently based on their gender.

Also, bare in mind that none of these things are ground for any father, including a black father, to seek primary custody of children. No judge can award a non custodial parent custody based on the mother treating one child differently than the other unless there is abuse. Technically most of what is being discussed by be defined as abuse but it still has lasting negative effects on males.

Youre not offering real solutions. You are just deflecting. The real solution for these problems would be for black women to stop having children she doesnt want or properly raise the children she now has.

"They work outside of home more and don’t have the privilege of having a husband to pick up any financial slack."

Not once did Rocky bring up material neglect. We know black women have money. Do I need to tell you what she spends her money on?


Kigali

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

contd.

"Black mothers try their best but when you are mommy, daddy, sole provider and head of the household. Shit aint easy and people need to understand that."

How often is a black mother all these things and how does it explain how she treats children differently based on their gender?

"Attention and time are two things bw cant give to their kids like other mothers and maybe that’s not helping but what are we to do? "

Black mothers arent the only working mothers. Hispanic women are known for both working and having even more children than your average black woman.

She may not be the sole financial provider for her children but then, Rocky isnt discussing the level of material comfort for children. He is discussing the things a black woman can give her male child that will not cost her a dime.

Still I believe, and perhaps Rocky does too, that it would seem easier for a black mother to provide worldly materials to her sons than it would be for her to provide emotional and psychological support based on the obvious emotional gulf that exist between her and her male children. We have yet to get to the bottom of what causes the obvious bitterness and resentment that what lead her to treat her sons differently from her daughters. My theories is that it is the maleness of her son that doesnt allow her to bond.

Kigali

Menelik Charles said...

Kigali said:

you couldnt begin to argue the points because you dont even understand them. This isnt about womem failing to do a man's job this is about black women failing to do her mothering, her nurturing simple because she is unable to bond with her own son.

anonymous said:

Like I said. "If black women are failing to do her mothering", the responsible thing for a black father to do would be to go to court and get custody of his son and RAISE HIS SON HIMSELF.

I'm proposing a real solution to a real problem: the socialization of black boys. All you want to do is blame black women for EVERY bad thing that happens in so-called "black communities".

Menelik says:

well, to be fair, Kigali holding mothers responsible for their collective part in the downfall of the African-American family and community. She was not wrong to do so since women choose to have sex and babies.

Anonymous said:

If the mother is not a good mother, take custody of your child AND RAISE IT YOURSELF or else shut up!

Menelik says:

a perfect "solution" if one lives in a failed state like Somalia but not so perfect in a civilised, complex, female-centric, society such as the US. I mean, do you seriously want to get charged with kidnapping, bro?

Consider your answer carefully.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Anonymous said...

Folks,

here's a YouTube video which basically sums up where sister Kigali is coming from as regards maternal responsibility:

"Black Women and Their Sons"

by Mizz Ebonie Princess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2CgtiSaJso&feature=sub

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ Anonymous

projection,rage and blame shifting do not equal problem solving. Nobody in the post mentioned "blame" except you, ie your projecting what you do unto rocky and his post b/c it probably applies. You wont be able to set yourself up as a victim here...capish?

Rashida said...

@Anonymous

What "shit about being a good mom" is false? Mothers socialize their daughters on how to interact with men in sexual and NONSEXUAL relationships. My daughter will never have to worry a single day of her life about not being able to find the man SHE WANTS. Just like her mom never had to worry. She will NEVER have to worry about "cleaning herself up" for some man she doesn't even want to be with. So don't worry about my daughter, she will be just fine.

As far as your black female victimization goes...

Other mothers wait to get married before they have kids - that is why they are not single mothers. They WAIT to find a man that can provide what they will need. THEY WAIT. Again, you keep acting as if black women have no choice but to become single mothers. Clearly, they do have a choice. It's called not getting pregnant until a man has shown that he is committed to you (legal marriage) and wants to have a child with you. The majority of black women are actually not having children out of wedlock. It's jsut that the women that ARE having kids they are being irresponsible. Tons of black women are not married and do not have children. In fact, black women have very low birthrates compared to other women. We also have more abortions that other women. So clearly we are not all out here just popping out babies. Black women are making CAREFUL, DELIBERATE decisions about avoiding parenting. Why couldn't Shaniqua? Because Shaniqua thought that a baby would be her "leg up" on other women. She thought that she could keep a man by getting pregnant since many black women cannot keep a man at all. So if BW start having babies, that will be a way for them to keep that man. And when they don't get the man, we see how they treat the child. Because it was never about the child at all. It was about the man - and once he shows that despite a baby she still isn't good enough, that baby becomes useless. But now she can use it to get her "Single Mother" badge that she parades around to prove just how strong she is. Don't get me wrong, there are some women that play the game, lose and are able to forge ahead and do right by their child. But that is not most. Most single mothers are mad because they lost, period. Now their children are not as loved because not only did she lose her target man, she is now handicapped from finding another man.

You cannot pull this crap on me, sweety. The majority of my female friends are black and I have about a dozen black female relatives I am close to. These women range in status from single baby momma's to successful attorneys. I hang around A LOT of black women and I also happen to be one. I see it with my own eyes. I hear the stories, I know the baby daddies, the children, everybody. I have seen it all. I know what I am talking about. I am not in denial about anything. I love black women to death and I am proud to be one. But we have to be able to admit that we have some serious issues. Issues that we have side-stepped for decades because black men were doing poorly so we had an excuse. What should happen if (and when)brothers were to get it together? Then what would be our excuse? Because we would not have changed a single thing because we keep thinking we are above reproach.

Black women are being left behind because of arrogance. We are far too arrogant about our behaviors and attitudes and we thought for the longest time that black men would just tolerate it. Good black men will not tolerate it. Only Ray Ray will. So if you're happy with Ray Ray you are ok with how things are now. If you're not, you say go get a white man because heesn't have Ray Ray's issues. Well what about all the black men that don't have Ray Ray's issues? Oh, I forgot, they all want white women.

*eyeroll*

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ Rocky,

unfortunately, this thing will become more and more common, and more men will be unequipped to deal with themselves and the world as the years go by.

In the post by anon, she revealed something that goes unspoken as it relates to men and reinforces what your post is about. The whole "shut up and take it" mantra. The fact that men have to go through biased courts, and uncaring system and deal with the problems in their own lives never crosses her mind, ie "its all about me, the woman."

Issues like these will attract the more violent and narcissistic women b/c it implicates them. They will always try to implicate a man 100% but cant come under the fact that its really 50/50. They will only accept their lot if they can blame a dude. Now, apply that mentality to how they raise their sons in particular and you get what we have today..and may get tomorrow.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

Its funny, this subset of women will avoid any criticism of their mothering skills, which is an obvious ploy to allow behavior that is unacceptable to go unchallenged while trying to keep men under their foot by making outrageously false claims and finding small things to complain about,especially if those things implicate her..

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

"They won't do this because it would mean taking responsibility themselves and they wouldn't have the mother to blame if something goes wrong."

You erroneously assume that these men are not taking responsibility. Since these mothers have default primary custody and there is NO COURT in all of America that would deprive women of custody of their children based on the issues Rocky is discussing, mothers need to admit their faults and change. The fact is that if the father did try to get custody the mother would go into over drive just to throat his efforts. Again the purpose of having these babies is leverage. You think she will just give up that leverage?

"These fathers would far rather talk about the poor job their single babymama is doing than actually move to help her with the situation or go for custody of their children. "

Really? A custody battle is a better alternative than a black woman just changing her ways? A costly custody battle is batter than a black woman just reflecting on how better to relate to her son. Great.

"They need to learn to accept rejection and move on."

Agreed. In exchange black women will not blame
1. Eurocentric standards of beauty
2. self hate
3. having your mother
etc. when she is rejected by black men.

Also men face far more rejection than women do.

Kigali

Rocky said...

The fact is majority of black mothers are single ones and they don’t have the time to do what other mothers do.

All of the mothers in the Florida study were single mothers and the black mothers reported greater child care support than the Cuban mothers. This link also discusses the tendency for black mothers to be less affectionate.

Menelik Charles said...

Sister Rashida said:

I love black women to death and I am proud to be one. But we have to be able to admit that we have some serious issues. Issues that we have side-stepped for decades because black men were doing poorly so we had an excuse.

But what should happen if (and when) brothers were to get it together? Then what would be our excuse? Because we would not have changed a single thing because we keep thinking we are above reproach.

Menelik says:

thing is Rashida (so lovely to see you back, by the way!) when sisters such as yourself give up matriarchal self-entitlement rights (not that you ever exercised them necessarily), and settle on a hubby, children, and peace, those not blessed with this honorable package will treat you as traitors to a cause whose underlying objective is to destroy ALL healthy Black relationships.

After all, when the powerful and the privilege start complaining about what they cannot have, or what others are not doing to their satisfaction, then you know instinctively that that power is one-sided, self-serving, and ultimately destructive.

Why else are perfectly decent, masculine, judicially patriarchal, brothers, regularly side-stepped in favour of the Pookies and Ray Rays? Because such men represent not only the family blueprint of such women but also their unholy mission to perpetuate the miserable status quo as it presently stands i.e. its fractured families from which its members will enter wider society disabled, dispirited and destructive.

All this was predicted by a well-meaning white man in the 1960s (Senator Danial Moynihan), and denied by various Negro males who boasted of how "strong and capable" Black women were. The only ones boasting of "strong Black women" today are Black women themselves. The rest of us are holding our noses, and turning away from the rotten mess they've left behind!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

PLEASE,

could all those who post under anonymous just click on Name/URL and give themselves any name they wish?

Then fill in the WORD VERIFICATION
(no need to fill in the PASSWORD) and hey presto!

Just try!

Anonymous said...

@Kigali

You said "Again the purpose of having these babies is leverage."

This is a erroneous assumption on your part. I don't believe MOST black women have babies with the idea of having leverage over some man. Many of those having babies are YOUNG and uneducated about sex. Lack of education is largely to blame for many oow children--not some scheme to leverage babies against men--as most of these new fathers are also YOUNG.

You said "You erroneously assume that these men are not taking responsibility."

Child is neglected by mother for whatever reason. Dad notices this neglect. Dad decides it's going to cost too much to do something about the problem. Doesn't sound like Dad is being RESPONSIBLE to me. If I saw that my child wasn't being treated right by his other parent I would move heaven and hell to make sure my child is not around that individual or in that environment.

You said "A custody battle is a better alternative than a black woman just changing her ways? A costly custody battle is batter than a black woman just reflecting on how better to relate to her son."

Despite your claims it doesn't take much at all to bring forth a custody hearing. An individual can hire an attorney or they can represent themselves. If black fathers can show that their child would be better off with THEM rather than the mother I don't believe there is a judge in America that will deny them custody.

Trying to get an adult woman to change her ways takes just as much-- if not more-- than it takes to just go for custody. Some people will never change. Some people don't feel they should change. What kind of father would WAIT for a "bad" mother to change before stepping in and doing something about the problem? Again I wouldn't sit by and let my child stay in a bad situation. It's STUPID to sit around waiting for the mother to change if you see problems with your child. I would rather spend every dime I have than to have a child years later grow up to be a rapist, gang member, or serial killer.

The truth is it's probably easier for a woman to relate to her daughter. They can bond over a variety of things concerning women. The same is not true for a boy child. I've heard it takes a man to raise boy--well black fathers need to get to it. Raise your freaking sons and starting bonding with them as FATHERS should.

You said "Also men face far more rejection than women do."

They may face it more but BLACK men sure can't accept it--especially coming from a black woman. The same for black women.

Black women and black girls don't owe black men/boys their affection. We all have to deal with rejection. I would suggest those black boys with their feelings hurt by black girls suck it up. There will be more of that to come in their lives in some way or the other.

Menelik Charles said...

Bro Rocky,

here's a link for a YouTube video I commented on some months back. In it the woman concerned (she calls herself "IsisPaperz") titles her video "Hating Girls Is Normal" and then sets out to prove as much by interviewing her 8 year-old nephew about his attitude towards girls.

What I noticed straight away was how frequently she attempted to place words in the child's mouth, and attach malevolent motives to his actions. To this end, she even USED her 13 year-old niece to harass the boy into confessing he hated girls: it makes for truly painful viewing!

In the end, they proved only that girls felt towards boys exactly as boys felt towards girls. Moreover, it transpired (because this terribly bright young lad said so) that girls not only set out to humiliate boys by, for example romantically rejecting them, and forcing them to bow to them, but that the boys actually set up an exclusively boys club in the first instance to protect themselves from the power and contempt of the girls!!!

I pointed this out to the lady in question and accused her of abusing, and harassing, her nephew with the support of a much older girl (her niece). I was then subjected to foul language, and threats to "annihilate" me! Finally, I was blocked, and all but one of my posts removed (the others ably demonstrating how I had exposed and humiliated her for her disgraceful actions).

Thing is, this woman's other videos are awfully intelligent, thoughtful and broadly Afrocentric. We sang from the same hymn sheet...until it came to the issue of Black boys: then her spiteful, intolerant, matriarchal side kicked in!

Anyway, please, Bro, try and view this video if you can. At the very least, it proves what you say here about the abusive, malicious, sentiment towards Black boy children.

"Hating Girls Is Normal".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aksQwmyRXWA

Menelik Charles
London UK

Rocky said...

Anon. Being unaffectionate toward a child is not grounds for losing parental rights. A poor parent does not equate to an abusive parent. What most men can hope for in a custody battle is shared custody which would mean that half of the child's time would be spent with the mother.

Also, fathers and mothers bring different roles. These roles complement each other. Eliminating the mother is no solution to a lack of motherly nurturing for such nurturing would continue to be absent.

On an earlier blog, I referenced a study showing that children of black male/white female relationships had higher IQ's than children of black female/white male relationships. This was attributed to the fact that mothers universally take the lead in educating children and white mothers seem to do so more effectively. This seems to fall right in line with the current topic.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous

According to the CDC the average age of a black mother when she has her first child is 21. This was in 2006. A 21 year old woman, and in all likelihood an older man arent children who dont know about sex or BC. At 21, this may not even be her first pregnancy.

"Child is neglected by mother for whatever reason. Dad notices this neglect. Dad decides it's going to cost too much to do something about the problem. Doesn't sound like Dad is being RESPONSIBLE to me."

I think you need to go back and read the post by Rocky entitled, "The socialization of Black Boys."
Technically nothing of what Rocky discusses would be grounds for any court to give primary custody of the father.

"The truth is it's probably easier for a woman to relate to her daughter. They can bond over a variety of things concerning women. The same is not true for a boy child. I've heard it takes a man to raise boy--well black fathers need to get to it. "

I think you are confusing the issue. This isnt about how mothers cant relate to their sons. This is about black women not being able to relate to her boys unlike the other groups that were apart of the study. As Rocky noted this is about Cuban mothers who were single just like these black mothers, probably working, who were better able to relate to her male children in contrast with black mothers. We arent talking about mothers "raising" boys we are talking about mothers nurturing their male children.

Kigali

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous said:

Black women and black girls don't owe black men/boys their affection. We all have to deal with rejection. I would suggest those black boys with their feelings hurt by black girls suck it up. There will be more of that to come in their lives in some way or the other.

Menelik says:

please stop making stuff up as you go along! This has nothing whatsoever to do with romantic rejection by women and girls (!) towards men and boys (!). Where in God's name is the issue of such rejection present in this post?!?!?

If anything, this whole post, and at least two commentators, suggests that Black women emotionally rejected by their child's fathers are in turn abusing/neglecting their sons!

Why then have you chosen to create a weird straw man argument in which females are always powerful position to reject males? It makes no sense at all...unless YOU are the unfortunate recipient of male rejection at the hands of your son's father (and have thus behaved in ways towards the child suggested here)!

If so, my question to women like you (if you are one) is: why is it then when male rejection comes calling, you can't simply "suck it up" as most men do, and simply move on?

Yeah, that's it: stop lying, and making up straw men arguments, suck it up the hurt, and move on...please!

Thank you.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Anonymous said...

@Menelik

Youre up early. LOL. I just watched the video and that little boy is so cute and so normal. He is a little boy that has a healthy grasp on the gender dynamics. Too bad as he gets older feminism will stamp it out of him.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

@Rocky,

"Social scientists have long been aware of an immense gap in the way poor parents and middle-class parents, whatever their color, treat their children, including during the earliest years of life. On the most obvious level, middle-class parents read more to their kids, and they use a larger vocabulary, than poor parents do. They have more books and educational materials in the house; according to Inequality at the Starting Gate, the average white child entering kindergarten in 1998 had 93 books, while the average black child had fewer than half that number. All of that seems like what you would expect given that the poor have less money and lower levels of education.

But poor parents differ in ways that are less predictably the consequences of poverty or the lack of high school diplomas. Researchers find that low-income parents are more likely to spank or hit their children. They talk less to their kids and are more likely to give commands or prohibitions when they do talk: “Put that fork down!” rather than the more soccer-mommish, “Why don’t you give me that fork so that you don’t get hurt?” In general, middle-class parents speak in ways designed to elicit responses from their children, pointing out objects they should notice and asking lots of questions: “That’s a horse. What does a horsie say?” (or that middle-class mantra, “What’s the magic word?”). Middle-class mothers also give more positive feedback: “That’s right! Neigh! What a smart girl!” Poor parents do little of this."

"Whats Holding Black Kids Back? by Kay S. Hymowitx, City Jounral Spring 2005.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_2_holding.html

Kigali

Menelik Charles said...

Yep Sis Kigali,

I'm just I just finished a paper on Melanie Klein, the psychoanalyst, and I've still got so much energy to burn off before I settle next to my SO who's watching BBC News 24!

But yeah, the lad in the video is real cute 'n' smart with it! I doubt feminism will catch him as he has alpha male qualities! He sure took care of his bullying, feminazi aunt!!!

Anonymous said...

Menelik Charles

"Why else are perfectly decent, masculine, judicially patriarchal, brothers, regularly side-stepped in favour of the Pookies and Ray Rays? Because such men represent not only the family blueprint of such women but also their unholy mission to perpetuate the miserable status quo as it presently stands i.e. its fractured families from which its members will enter wider society disabled, dispirited and destructive."

------------------------------------

Notice the sense of ENTITLEMENT in your comment. I agree with anonymous up above. Black women DON'T owe black men their time, attention, or affection. Black women DON'T owe "decent" black men their time, attention, or affection. Those single black women on television don't speak for all of us.

If "perfectly decent judicially patriarchal, brothers," black men are being side-stepped in favor of Pookies and Ray Rays it could be because those perfectly "decent" black men aren't viewed by black women the same way they view themselves. It could also be due to the TYPE of black women those "decent" black men choose to pursue, which is usually the SAME pretty girls pursued by Pookie and Ray Ray. Why aren't "decent" black men pursuing "decent" average black women?

Those "decent" black men see themselves one way while black women, and perhaps other people, see them in a completely different way. Those "decent" black men are pursuing a certain type of black woman and getting frustrated instead of pursing "decent" black women of their caliber who are probably MORE compatible with them. That is the REAL issue here not the stuff you wrote.

From experience many of these "decent" black men suffer from NARCISSISM, which is evident through their sense of entitlement to black women's affection.

These "decent" black men aren't as likable as they would like to imagine themselves. They tend to lack a personality that is COMPATIBLE with my own personality. COMPATIBILITY is a large part of the issue.

Women aren't going to go for a man just because he is "decent." There needs to be some compatibility between them. The man needs to be attractive to them. Thanks to the advancement of women in this country we are no longer dependent on men for financial support so men must bring more to the table than their money.

Pookie and Ray Ray may not have much going for themselves but personality wise they are more likable than those "decent" black man suffering from narcissism. Pookie and Ray Ray tend to be "down to earth" and "free spirited." While "decent" black men suffering from narcissism are uptight, controlling, boring, and as stated before not very likable or fun.

I don't go for the Pookies and Ray Rays, and I don't go for the "decent" brother suffering from narcissism either. Being a spinster is more appealing than both.

"Decent" black men suffering from narcissism won't get any complaints from me if they go ahead and marry a non-black woman because I highly doubt I or any black woman I know would want them. Go. Be happy.

Anonymous said...

@Menelik Charles

Your whole comment was a straw man argument to MY comment which was piggybacking off of Rashida's comment. Therefore it didn't have anything to do with Rocky's blog but with HER comment.

Thank You (side-step).

Good day. I have nothing more to add to this debate.

Anonymous said...

Menelik says:
"a perfect "solution" if one lives in a failed state like Somalia but not so perfect in a civilised, complex, female-centric, society such as the US. I mean, do you seriously want to get charged with kidnapping, bro?"

Me:
Of course, the father has to go thru the court system to obtain custody of his child. I thought that was understood.

Let me be clear. If the mother is a poor mother, the father should spend his last dime to obtain an attorney, go to court and AT LEAST try to obtain custody of his child.

If the father can show a judge that he can offer more than the (multiple, illegitimate baby having, project living, welfare receiving, etc.) mother he stands a fair chance of winning the custody battle.

Black fathers need to stop complaining about black mothers not doing their job as mothers and DO SOMETHING.

Anonymous said...

Can I say what millions of Americans think and feel…

Who the fuck cares about black boys?

I don’t care. I’m sure majority of people in America and the world don’t care so why are we wasting our time here.

Its not worth the time and the good older black guys will die out in a few decades and the few young assholes we have now will kill each other off.

Abort any incoming ones or give the ones you have now to the state.

Problem Solved.

That was easy!!!!!!!

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous replies to Menelik:

Pookie and Ray Ray may not have much going for them but personality-wise they are more likable than those "decent" black man suffering from narcissism. Pookie and Ray Ray tend to be "down to earth" and "free spirited." While "decent" black men suffering from narcissism are uptight, controlling, boring, and as stated before not very likable or fun.

Menelik replies:

I notice women like you have come up with a new paradigm of decent Black men so as to explain away your general reluctance to avoid mating and marrying such men. None of it rings true, of course, because it is both a general lie, and a deflection, specifically constructed so as to counter the easily proven assertion that butch Black women such as yourself are horribly unpalatible to men of all races, let alone Black men!

Anonymous said:

I don't go for the Pookies and Ray Rays, and I don't go for the "decent" brother suffering from narcissism either. Being a spinster is more appealing than both.

Menelik replies:

you don't go for Black men you claim are "down to earth, free-spirited", and, therefore, likeable? Men whose apparent natures you contrasted with those who you imagine are "suffering from narcissism are uptight, controlling, boring, and not very likable or fun"?

Instead you claim spinsterhood is preferable to both sets of men, right?

Hmmm.

Lady, one cannot smell sour grapes, but one can nevertheless identify those who've consumed of its bitter wine. Time to feed the cats methinks lol

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous said in reply to Menelik:

those "decent" black men see themselves one way while black women see them in a completely different way. Those "decent" black men are pursuing a certain type of black woman and getting frustrated instead of pursing "decent" black women of their caliber who are probably MORE compatible with them. That is the REAL issue here not the stuff you wrote.

Menelik replies:

if decent Black women were as compatible with decent Black men as you suggest above, then such women would be considered by you to be (and I quote!) "suffering from narcissism are uptight, controlling, boring, and as stated before not very likable or fun".

Isn't it odd that so-called "strong, educated, independent Black women" are often described in these very terms by a good many Black men? That is; sexually "uptight"; "controlling" or domineering; socially "boring" and narcistic. Projection, anyone?

Those grapes must taste truly foul!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Andrew said...

I read the arguments here.

We can get past the blaming. Right now, the black community is in a crisis. My feeling on the disconnect with black men and black women is increasing due to many reasons.

The "decent" black men as one black woman alluded to are narcissistic. I might be the prime example of that. But black women are the same way. She said we are not entitled to certain black women.

That is fine but we are not the ones complaining about dating or the skew statistics in dating due to black men being incarcerated and etc.

If you want to be an ex con's girlfriend be my guest. Just don't get upset and say black men 'checked out" on you. You was aware of the consequences long before.

That goes for black men too. They get a hood rat knocked up and get upset about it her hood rat friends tell her to "milk you at court". Even middle class black women tend to be influenced by some "ghetto black women".

At the end of the day, when it comes to getting "money". All black women can get along "in that department if anything else".

We got to get past the bad decisions we made. Try to work things out when possible. Obviously black kids (even the middle class black kids) are failing in society.

For those black people that say "well this does not affect me". It will when you are elderly and they make laws cutting social programs and you don't got a voice in Govt because all the god damn kids are too stupid to vote or locked up!

I read an article about half of elderly black people live in poverty and get poor healthcare. That is increasing.

So don't tell me I don't care about black kids. I just know the end result will not be good for our generation when we are elderly!

Anonymous said...

Menelik Charles

I gave you the truth and your only response is to call me "butch" LOL. Another straw man deflection. The truth hurts huh?

Sorry but "decent" black men have their flaws too, and I believe most black women recognize them which is why they are treated like they have the plague when it comes to some black women.

There is nothing "new" about my comment. People will always go for those they are most compatible with. You just can't accept it because you're probably one of the individuals being left in the cold. You see yourself ONE WAY and black women see you ANOTHER WAY.

I'm in a committed relationship to a Jewish man. I'm quite happy. I'm not interested in Pookie, Ray Ray, or "decent" black guy. If I were single spinsterhood would be more appealing to any of the above.

Andrew said...

She said this...

"I'm in a committed relationship to a Jewish man. I'm quite happy. I'm not interested in Pookie, Ray Ray, or "decent" black guy. If I were single spinsterhood would be more appealing to any of the above."

You act like that Jewish man was always "commitment minded". You idiot. You don't know what he did in his "past". He could have been with black prostitutes and decided to keep you because you fulfill his fetish. He sure wasn't raised in the black community. So, where would he get his "admiration' from concerning black women? Movies, sexual thoughts and etc. I am just speculating here since you think you got you the best "Jewish man".

Perhaps, you need to think about that when you are licking and sucking. Before you even talk about black men.

Good day.

Mr Laurelton Queens

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous said:

Menelik, I gave you the truth and your only response is to call me "butch" LOL. Another straw man deflection. The truth hurts huh?

Menelik says:

of course the truth hurts, darling, which is why you're projecting its sting onto me lol

Anonymous said:

I'm in a committed relationship to a Jewish man. I'm quite happy. I'm not interested in Pookie, Ray Ray, or "decent" black guy. If I were single spinsterhood would be more appealing to any of the above.

Menelik says:

you are in no way committed to any race of man other than to those you obssess about here: namely Black men! Why else would you be here slandering men with whom you claim to have absolutely no interest in if you were not actually INTERESTED in them in the first place?

I cannot imagine a Jewish woman dating a Black man, and who expresses no interest at all in Jewish men, coming to a Jewish man's blog for the sole purpose of putting down ALL Jewish men, and doing battle with Jewish posters on such a blog.

Really, it makes little or any sense unless we trace such absurd behaviour to a dysfunctional relationship with her Jewish father, and to a series of failed relationships with Jewish men (who, of course, are representative of the Jewish father).

Thus, a Jewish woman behaving in such a manner I consider has formed a racial alliance against Jewish men as a group (in which the Black male is the silent beneficiary) rather than a romantic alliance in which past relationships are unrelated to the present alleged romatic bliss.

Women like this are sub-consciously torn between wanting revenge against men of their race, and desiring them romantically. This is why women like you come over here to do battle with Black men: because its closest you can get to us without actually being hurt or romantically rejected.

Think about it, babes...then, of course, deny it!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Brother Rocky;

here's another extraordinarily honest video on the subject of Black women abusing their sons from Mizz Ebonie Princess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAvX6lBtIvo

Menelik Charles
London UK

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@Anon

*******
You just can't accept it because you're probably one of the individuals being left in the cold. You see yourself ONE WAY and black women see you ANOTHER WAY.
*******
Its black women being "left out in the cold" as you put it, hence all the whining and crying about how they cant "find a good man" without asking men themselves what they are looking for!!

Name one media outlet, magazine article,etc where black men denied they have flaws to America!! Go ahead, I will wait. Make sure it was aired on a large station such as ABC as well.

So jasmin,natasha, or whoever you are. I guess all the "decent" black men are different than your "average" black man then huh?? The "rule" you are promoting is that black men are unacceptable and undesirable while you yourself are all that, just like those bust downs on ABC huh??

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

Back to the topic at hand...

The socialization of black boys being one of overall hidden abuse is not unknown to the boys themselves. They know the girls get more attention,etc by everyone else so they check out whenever they get the opportunity to do so. The fact that black boys are the last to be adopted does not help either.

All that combined with societal racism and the black communities sexism is a recipe for disaster.ITs no wonder that when black boys fail, it is their fault inherently (according the BWE and white society), while if the succeeds he owes everyone and should be friends with everyone.

The question is, how do we address this issue head on while holding all parties accountable??

Anonymous said...

LOL I see I hurt alot of feelings here.

I happened across the blog after I googled black kids. I read through the comments and read the ignorance from Menelik Charles.

You are a man in denial and who clearly doesn't understand relationships or women.

WOMEN WANT MEN THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH. You need to come to terms with that.

I don't know any woman, not even the single women (@kid w/golden arms), who wants a "decent" black man just for the sake of having a man.

Women want men they are compatible with and with whom they can find COMMON GROUND. Hence the reason those women on ABC aren't willing to settle for any old "decent" black man.

Menelik is too sexist to even fathom the idea that women expect COMPATIBILITY in a man. He is too sexist to see that women have FEELINGS and NEEDS.

It's a blow to his ego that those "decent" black men are probably getting rejected because they aren't as appealing as they imagine themselves to be.

She is supposed to want him because he is a "perfectly decent judicially patriarchal, brother." HAHAHA! As opposed to being a sensible, funny, loving, brother she is COMPATIBLE with??????

You don't understand women and your sexism is an eyesore. You won't get anywhere with any woman who isn't already a doormat.

..............................
Andrew

"You act like that Jewish man was always "commitment minded". You idiot."

I beg to differ. You're the idiot. It doesn't matter what he did BEFORE me. Just like it doesn't matter what I did BEFORE him. Our relationship is about the here and now. The past is the past. Why the heck would I hold this over his head? After all it happened BEFORE me.

Your comment came completely out of nowhere and wasn't even remotely on the subject being discussed. I read on another blog here where someone called you stupid. I concur.

Anonymous said...

Here is my original comment to Menelik Charles' stupidity. You fellows need to attack the TRUTH in my comment rather than attack me WITH YOUR STRAW MAN comments.
....................................

Notice the sense of ENTITLEMENT in your comment. I agree with anonymous up above. Black women DON'T owe black men their time, attention, or affection. Black women DON'T owe "decent" black men their time, attention, or affection. Those single black women on television don't speak for all of us.

If "perfectly decent judicially patriarchal, brothers," black men are being side-stepped in favor of Pookies and Ray Rays it could be because those perfectly "decent" black men aren't viewed by black women the same way they view themselves. It could also be due to the TYPE of black women those "decent" black men choose to pursue, which is usually the SAME pretty girls pursued by Pookie and Ray Ray. Why aren't "decent" black men pursuing "decent" average black women?

Those "decent" black men see themselves one way while black women, and perhaps other people, see them in a completely different way. Those "decent" black men are pursuing a certain type of black woman and getting frustrated instead of pursing "decent" black women of their caliber who are probably MORE compatible with them. That is the REAL issue here not the stuff you wrote.

From experience many of these "decent" black men suffer from NARCISSISM, which is evident through their sense of entitlement to black women's affection.

These "decent" black men aren't as likable as they would like to imagine themselves. They tend to lack a personality that is COMPATIBLE with my own personality. COMPATIBILITY is a large part of the issue.

Women aren't going to go for a man just because he is "decent." There needs to be some compatibility between them. The man needs to be attractive to them. Thanks to the advancement of women in this country we are no longer dependent on men for financial support so men must bring more to the table than their money.

Pookie and Ray Ray may not have much going for themselves but personality wise they are more likable than those "decent" black man suffering from narcissism. Pookie and Ray Ray tend to be "down to earth" and "free spirited." While "decent" black men suffering from narcissism are uptight, controlling, boring, and as stated before not very likable or fun.

I don't go for the Pookies and Ray Rays, and I don't go for the "decent" brother suffering from narcissism either. Being a spinster is more appealing than both.

"Decent" black men suffering from narcissism won't get any complaints from me if they go ahead and marry a non-black woman because I highly doubt I or any black woman I know would want them. Go. Be happy.

...................................

hasta la vista!

Andrew said...

You said this..

"It's a blow to his ego that those "decent" black men are probably getting rejected because they aren't as appealing as they imagine themselves to be.

She is supposed to want him because he is a "perfectly decent judicially patriarchal, brother." HAHAHA! As opposed to being a sensible, funny, loving, brother she is COMPATIBLE with??????

You don't understand women and your sexism is an eyesore. You won't get anywhere with any woman who isn't already a doormat."

You seem to know so much about black men but said this about your Jewish man. My response and "your response"

"You act like that Jewish man was always "commitment minded". You idiot."

I beg to differ. You're the idiot. It doesn't matter what he did BEFORE me. Just like it doesn't matter what I did BEFORE him. Our relationship is about the here and now. The past is the past. Why the heck would I hold this over his head? After all it happened BEFORE me.

I changed what I said about you.

You are a DESPERATE IDIOT.

Apparently you cared what black men did in the past when you was grilling them on dates. You ain't believe a word they said to you.

The Jewish man tells you everything you want to hear. You don't question it or seem to care.

That makes you a desperate idiot.

Good day.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ anon,

despite pretending to be 2 different people posting on the same board, your attempt at dismissing the men as narcissistic,etc is not only projection but reveals what I stated before: You do not know these men.

The dialogue follows a typical pattern:

Black woman:"There is no good black men. They are all (fill in the blank)"
Black men:"What are you talking about, I am not (fill in the blank)?"
Black woman:"Yeah but you are boring,lame, (fill in the blank)."
Black man:" You chose men who treat you a certain way then complain about it."
Black Woman:"I chose them b/c (fill in the blank)."
Black man:" Then keep my name out of your mouth and talk to those men specifically, or just deal with the consequences quietly."
Black woman:" I dont do that b/c I (fill in victim crap here)."

Which goes back into the socialization of black boys. Given the overall matriarchal nature of the community, it follows that the women would not be used to being under the microscope for their behaviors, while the men would almost struggle to assert themselves independently of the women. As a result, some men act out different ways and others just check out and leave. Anons "dismissal" of "decent black men" is no different than a child saying "you cant play with me b/c you wont let me do what I want no matter what." She has no evidence to promote her claim of the "decent black men" being narcissistic, while all evidence points back at her and her fellow "swirlers" on her blog. She speaks in generalizations when it applies to people she wants to degrade ( the notion that their are "Decent black men" is a jab at all black men, ie most of us aint shit and those who are "decent" still aint shit, ie narcissistic) but speaks in specifics when it comes to people she wants to defend (ie "those abc women dont speak for all of us").

Furthermore,you have not posted ANY evidence to back up what you say about "Decent black men." Especially as it pertains to their dating woes. This is b/c said evidence does not exist in mass numbers and popularity. Men as a group follow the path of least resistance. No talking, making songs about how they are leaving, no blogs,etc,etc. Black men, as a group, are not whining and moaning about the lack of eligible black women to date and marry. Instead of providing evidence, she simply projects (to hide ignorance) what is true for a number of black women ("upper crust,educated") unto black men and talk as if it is the gospel truth. The socialization of black boys has taught black boys and men that nobody cares about your shit, so do what you must. This socialization is backfiring on the women who promote it b/c many men are living happily without their input or permission, which is the base of many of these womens obsession with black men. They cannot imagine not being the center of his attention which is why they keep him in her mind.

Anonymous said...

Andrew

"Apparently you cared what black men did in the past when you was grilling them on dates."

....................................

You assume I've dated a black man. LOL. I've NEVER been interested in black men. All of my boyfriends have been NON-black men because those are the men I find the most COMMON GROUND with.

This is probably why others here are calling you stupid. You assume things and assume you know people. You make up things in your mind.

I never once mentioned ever dating a black man. I never once mentioned anything from my past relationships nor did I give detail of my current relationship.

YOU BROUGHT UP THE PAST as if it was somehow related to THIS conversation. I guess anytime a black woman has something less than flattering to say about black men it's because she's been hurt in the past by black men right? WRONG! I don't date nor have I ever dated a black man. You couldn't pay me.

I don't have to judge black men based on past actions. I have two eyes and two ears to see and hear enough to know NARCISSISM when I see or hear it. They turn me off more than any other race of men. I know enough to know I'm not interested in them on a personal level. That comes from observations.

YOU jumped to a conclusion about me based on ONE comment here, which makes you stupid.

You also judged my relationship though you don't know me! Look at all the ASSUMPTIONS you've made regarding me, my significant other, my past, and his past. AGAIN I DON'T KNOW YOU!!!

I judge black men based on their ACTIONS, WORDS, and the THINGS I SEE not their past sweetie. LOL.

While I don't personally deal with black men I have been around enough of them to know how many of them think and behave. I've seen enough to know I'm not attracted to black men nor am I interested in them on a personal level.

Stop being so stupid and actually think for a second. Where did I talk in the PAST tense on this blog? Stop assuming you know me! LOL!

Everything I've said on this blog is the truth from my own observations and conversations with other black women.

I guess because I can't get wet for a black man I must be a "desperate idiot." Get over yourself! Every black woman is NOT interested in black men. No thanks. I WILL STICK TO MY JEWISH GENTLEMAN.

Pick your shattered ego off the floor.

I've said enough here.

Goodnite!

dreamgyrl360 said...

Being that I am a black woman, with two sons and a daughter all under the age of 10, I have to say that this article jarred me.
I have made a point to not show any difference between my children when it comes to love and affection. All of my children are praised when they do well and scolded or spanked when they are disobedient. I DO however expect my sons to be masculine and my daughter to be feminine and there are some activities we are quite rigid on.
I don't believe you can spoil a baby, but then again my parents never believed that. So that cycle ended at least a generation ago.

I have looked at my daughter's male classmates and how they are treated and I feel bad. I knew *something* was wrong, because I read the warrior method. And while the adage "they raise their daughters and love their sons" may not be accurate, it is still saying something.
The "loving their sons" part is a lack of caring what they do, basically. Just letting them run all willy-nilly. While, as your post said, guiding our daughters and giving them clear cut boundaries...
Since I can't take my daughter's male classmates to my home and homeschool them (lol I'm in Texas) I can only be a friend to them when I'm up at the school; a female adult of the same race that they recognize as someone who is fair to them and cares about them and gives them a chance.
But even that's not enough.
We're going to lose yet another generation of young men. Because you're right -- the little boys in my daughter's class need patience, and care and love.
No one else is giving it to them. They do bad in school it's not questioned or discussed, it is only "You know I'ma beat that ass when we get home, right?"
...I can only talk. As I said, I have my sons. I give them what they need. I try to be fair and balanced. A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD...
*reading your stuff again* heavens I always talked to my babies I was always in their face no matter what the gender...they were so pretty how could I not talk to them?...

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

the way anon came in a, baited and switched/bashed the men is typical....this topic is very important and all she could talk about is some bs that she projected unto the men...smh


and this mentality contributes to the socialization of black boys.....

anon 3 said...

Rocky said:
"While numerous other factors certainly are among the reasons why black males today show so much excessive violence, evidence does support that lesser attention and affection from their mothers at an early age could play a major role in this."

One of those "numerous other factors" is that black fathers today are mostly missing in action (mia).

Anonymous said...

@kid/golden arms

You're exactly right. I especially hate that rhetorical trick black women play when discussing the " good black man." they talk about him with the assumption that they are good themselves. It's almost a difficult position that they have about who they are. This is when they are not turning their vices into virtues. This is why they are angry. They can't reconcile the image they have of themselves with their reality. This is why I am against this whole IR push because the assumption is that I am perfect and the white man , unlike the black man, will reward my perfection. The white man will put me where I belong as a black women.

Some black women in the Sojouners blog knee rhetorically ask "why do you think no ever ask where the good black when are like they are where the good black men are?" this made me laugh. That's a logical fallacy whereby you assume that the absence of evidence is evidence of it's absence. Black don't need to ask where the good black women are. his actions are telling you everything you need to know.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

kid W/Golden Arms

"your attempt at dismissing the men as narcissistic,etc is not only projection but reveals what I stated before: You do not know these men....the way anon came in a, baited and switched/bashed the men is typical..."
....................................

I didn't bash anyone. I offered a counter-argument to Menelik Charles' sexism, which is a clear example of NARCISSISM. Andrew even admitted he suffers from narcissism. I will show you what I mean.

Anonymous said...

Kid W/Golden Arms


http://www.merckmanuals.com/home/sec07/ch105/ch105a.html

Narcissistic Personality: People with a narcissistic personality have a sense of superiority, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. They have an exaggerated belief in their own value or importance, which is what therapists call grandiosity. They may be extremely sensitive to failure, defeat, or criticism. When confronted by a failure to fulfill their high opinion of themselves, they can easily become enraged or severely depressed. Because they believe themselves to be superior in their relationships with other people, they expect to be admired and often suspect that others envy them. They believe they are entitled to having their needs met without waiting, so they exploit others, whose needs or beliefs they deem to be less important. Their behavior is usually offensive to others, who view them as being self-centered, arrogant, or selfish. This personality disorder typically occurs in high achievers, although it may also occur in people with few achievements.

Proof of the above on this blog...

"Why else are perfectly decent, masculine, judicially patriarchal, brothers, regularly side-stepped in favour of the Pookies and Ray Rays? Because such men represent not only the family blueprint of such women but also their unholy mission to perpetuate the miserable status quo as it presently stands i.e. its fractured families from which its members will enter wider society disabled, dispirited and destructive." -Menelik Charles

Menelik Charles' Narcissism Checklist

-Sense of superiority over Pookie and Ray Ray--Check

- A need for admiration from black women who favor Pookie and Ray Ray--CHECK

- An an exaggerated belief in their own value or importance- "perfectly decent, masculine, judicially patriarchal, brothers" Menelik Charles-CHECK

- Extremely sensitive to failure, defeat, or criticism--CHECK--as evident in his response to my original comment, "I notice women like you have come up with a new paradigm of decent Black men so as to explain away your general reluctance to avoid mating and marrying such men. None of it rings true, of course, because it is both a general lie, and a deflection, specifically constructed so as to counter the easily proven assertion that butch Black women such as yourself are horribly unpalatible to men of all races, let alone Black men!" -Menelik Charles

-When confronted by a failure to fulfill their high opinion of themselves, they can easily become enraged or severely depressed-CHECK--see EVERY response Menelik Charles posted in response to me.

-Because they believe themselves to be superior in their relationships with other people, they expect to be admired and often suspect that others envy them.--CHECK-- "Women like this are sub-consciously torn between wanting revenge against men of their race, and desiring them romantically. This is why women like you come over here to do battle with Black men: because its closest you can get to us without actually being hurt or romantically rejected." -Menelik Charles

--They believe they are entitled to having their needs met without waiting, so they exploit others, whose needs or beliefs they deem to be less important.--CHECK see Menelik Charles Pookie and Ray Ray comment up above and see my comments on this blog where I point out that women have FEELINGS and want men they are COMPATIBLE with.

-Their behavior is usually offensive to others, who view them as being self-centered, arrogant, or selfish.--Double check, as pointed out by me throughout my comments on this blog.

...................................

Behold the narcissism right in front of your face. My final words.

See ya!

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

Menelik Charles,

you were exactly right with respect to these womens bait,switch and hate tactics. The post is a perfect example. Here we are talking about an issue that effects young black boys more than the girls and some chick who probably helped ban obsidian comes in here and tries to bait (change the subject) everyone into a debate about "decent black men," as if to imply that they dont exist and if they do they are damaged goods.

Now apply that to alot of "mothers" and "sisters" of these boys, to these womens personal relationships with men (especially black) and it sheds more light on how alot of black boys are brought up in this nation.

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous said:

I happened across the blog after I googled black kids. I read through the comments and read the ignorance from Menelik Charles.

You are a man in denial and who clearly doesn't understand relationships or women.

Menelik says:

madam, you are exactly correct: I have no qualifications in psychology, academic or forensic; the practice of psychotherapy, and therefore, no understanding whatsoever of personal relationships between men and women.

I might also add that my partner is not, in fact, a practicing child psychotherapist with seven years of training behind her.

Happy now?

Anonymous said:

WOMEN WANT MEN THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH. You need to come to terms with that.

Menelik asks:

what's there to come to terms with, Ms Einstein? Most people seek out those they're compatible with. The point is, you seem to interpret the term 'compatibility' as inherently positive: it is not! A pimp and his bitches are compatible; Hitler and the German nation were compatible; controlling, matriarchal madams are compatible with powerless Pookies and Ray Rays...I could go on lol

Anyway, funny how you now dismiss me as sexist (nice deflections, by the way) so as to avoid dealing with the daddy issues, and racial alliances, I raised earlier.

I did suggest that you'd come up with some means of denial, and your last response was it lol

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Hey, Ms Anonymous, remember this post? The one you mysteriously avoided responding to, and instead trying to deflect matters by way of an ad hominem attacks? Well, here it is again:

Anonymous said:

Menelik, I gave you the truth and your only response is to call me "butch" LOL. Another straw man deflection. The truth hurts huh?

Menelik says:

of course the truth hurts, darling, which is why you're projecting its sting onto me lol

Anonymous said:

I'm in a committed relationship to a Jewish man. I'm quite happy. I'm not interested in Pookie, Ray Ray, or "decent" black guy. If I were single spinsterhood would be more appealing to any of the above.

Menelik says:

you are in no way committed to any race of man other than to those you obsess about here: namely Black men! Why else would you be here slandering men with whom you claim to have absolutely no interest in if you were not actually INTERESTED in them in the first place?

I cannot imagine a Jewish woman dating a Black man, and who expresses no interest at all in Jewish men, coming to a Jewish man's blog for the sole purpose of putting down ALL Jewish men, and doing battle with Jewish posters on such a blog.

Really, it makes little or any sense unless we trace such absurd behaviour to a dysfunctional relationship with her Jewish father, and to a series of failed relationships with Jewish men (who, of course, are representative of the Jewish father).

Thus, a Jewish woman behaving in such a manner I consider has formed a racial alliance against Jewish men as a group (in which the Black male is the silent beneficiary) rather than a romantic alliance in which past relationships are unrelated to the present alleged romantic bliss.

Women like this are sub-consciously torn between wanting revenge against men of their race, and desiring them romantically. This is why women like you come over here to do battle with Black men: because its closest you can get to us without actually being hurt or romantically rejected.

Think about it, babes...then, of course, deny it!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

@ dreamgyrl360,

you know, sister, it is always very humbling to hear sisters such as yourself showing genuine concern for the welfare of all of our children but also a special interest in those who have been failed.

Your children are truly blessed to have such a sensitive, intelligent, feminine, woman like you as their mother. And that fellow of yours can count his blessing to lol

Menelik Charles
London UK

PS since you are new here, do take time to look over some of the rest of Bro Rocky's articles.

Anonymous said...

Just something I picked up on about every blog Menelik post on.
I love how he calls women who support black men or who are married to black men “sister” but any black woman who isn’t married to one or is in a relationship with white men is everything else under the sun.

“oh sister is so good you care about the welfare of our children” , as if no other black woman cares despite her bf/husband/choices in mate.

Lmao, its kind of funny to me and it makes me think wtf? Are we not all black sistahs and brothas?
Oh, I forgot…
Lol…

Oh and dreamgyrl, you sound down to earth and like a good mom. Don’t think this has anything to do with you. It could be me but you kind of made me think of ole girl Julia. Sounds like something she said before….

weird.

Menelik Charles said...

@ Anonymous:

Narcissistic Personality:

People with a narcissistic personality have a sense of superiority, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. They have an exaggerated belief in their own value or importance, which is what therapists call grandiosity. They may be extremely sensitive to failure, defeat, or criticism. When confronted by a failure to fulfill their high opinion of themselves, they can easily become enraged or severely depressed. Because they believe themselves to be superior in their relationships with other people, they expect to be admired and often suspect that others envy them. They believe they are entitled to having their needs met without waiting, so they exploit others, whose needs or beliefs they deem to be less important. Their behavior is usually offensive to others, who view them as being self-centered, arrogant, or selfish. This personality disorder typically occurs in high achievers, although it may also occur in people with few achievements.

Menelik replies:

thus far lady you've shown much evidence at being rather well-practiced in the art of projection. I mean, offering the above as a description of my alleged character is proof of this.

Here's why:

every single Black man (and a sister or two) who read the above description of a Narcissistic Personality were simply blown away at how accurately it summed up the general personality traits of a good many Black women!!!!

It matters not, therefore, what you say of me, sweetie, since you're not only meddling in my territory, but you're also unwittingly describing yourself in the most explicit terms!

So next time, instead of borrowing quotes from an area of academia clearly unfamiliar to you, try studying it instead and maybe you'll learn a little about what makes you tick. Failing this, try therapy to work through unresolved issues with that big, bad, Black daddy of yours, and leave Black men the hell alone...wherever you might locate us!

Happy Hanukkah.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@anon

...Menelik never denied their compatiblity, as he noted, he merely commented on the nature of the compatibility and how this effects gender relations dialogue overall

The basis of his assertion is a reation to the claim made by women when they refuse to deal with the consequences of their choices. Plain and simple. But you are enjoying this, and you know exactly what he means.

Listening to the dialogue, black men do not claim to be "good men" unless someone ( usually a bustdown chick) tries to say they do not exist, else she would have one, like she is perfect, you pretend not know this.Black men respond b/c boys, as Rockys post noted, are taught to think of others first and themselves second, ie "play tough." Many black Women like this, until it backfires, the men say fuck it and keep movin....que the victim music for the women..

Your reaction to the "decent black men" not being (fill in the blank) and narcissistic is an attempt to dismiss them when they criticize you after women of your ilk bitch and moan about the lack of "good black men"! If these men were not to criticize you, the story would be a "woah is me/Im the victim" hustle.

The whole "good black man"/"bad black man" is a rhetorical hustle that is reminiscent of a mother calling a child a "good boy" or a "bad boy."
overall, your false claims about the "good black man" are an attempt to shut down his criticisms of your incessant whining and moaning.

since your loving the attention here and desire for this topic of black male socialization to not be further explored due to what it implies about black women, I will put it on you:

****
I love how he calls women who support black men or who are married to black men “sister” but any black woman who isn’t married to one or is in a relationship with white men is everything else under the sun
****
post evidence or it didnt happen...

****
It could be me but you kind of made me think of ole girl Julia. Sounds like something she said before….
weird.
****
First you give a back handed compliment,then you imply that she is Julia. Projection (narcissism) at its finest, you have cosigned yourself in this thread which is easily observable due to posting style.

these women are like lil girls who throw rocks at boys hoping to get him to chase and respond to them...

and the socialization of black boys is affected by this b/c they are made to believe that these abusive tactics are normal, instead of abnormal...

Rocky said...

Bro Menelik. Check out this link on the topic of male narcissism .

Anonymous said...

@KWGA
Different Anonymous …smart ass. Smdh.

Menelik Charles always calls people who are black males, married/dating black men or kiss their asses…brother or sister.
He never will call a bw in a relationship with a wm, sister. Kigali is the only one and she sides with black men 99 percent of the time.

If you don’t side with bm aka kiss ass or in a relationship with one…Menelik basically has it out for you. Jasmine, Natasha, Julia and a lot of other black females who just so happen to be married/dating a wm can tell you that.

“YOU HAVE DADDY PROBLEMS!”

Lmao..how many times have I heard it from this creep.

The other anonymous is right, menelik has issues. I feel bad for his daughter, she is part of his cult idea for black men and she will grow up programmed to stay under his control.

Rocky keeps going back to black moms and hes right.

They are selfish.Black boys are a lost cause. They are worth no ones time, effort or money.

I’d rather adopt a damn dog.

The good ones were born decades ago and no one decent has been produced since. They are all prob over 30, anyone younger?...yeah.

-Kelli

Menelik Charles said...

Anonymous said:

I love how he calls women who support black men or who are married to black men “sister” but any black woman who isn't married to one or is in a relationship with white men is everything else under the sun

Menelik says:

I love it how you've come on here expressed open hostility towards Black men; denied kinship with them; and dismissed every Black man as beneath you; imagined you were inflicting some romantic pain upon their egos: and then expect me to kneel at your feet, and call you a sister?

What was that you were quoting about a narcissistic personality? Remind me, please.

"People with a narcissistic personality have a sense of superiority, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy. They have an exaggerated belief in their own value or importance, which is what therapists call grandiosity...Because they believe themselves to be superior in their relationships with other people, they expect to be admired and often suspect that others envy them".

Menelik says:

yep, sums you up perfectly except as every therapist knows, such a grandiose stance typically conceals an underlying inferiority complex. Sounds about right to me!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Andrew said...

Dear Rocky

I read the narcissistic article. I want to give a different view on that. There is a certain amount of narcissism in the black community (actually a lot of it).

I will even go as far as to say if you blog you must have an element of narcissism. I haven't met a black blogger that did not think they were always "right" LOL.

In my opinion (just my opinion). Narcissism has it pros and cons. I want black men to be confidant but not to their self destruction.

That is why when you see a black man finally make it (gain wealth) whether rapping, sports, or even just a really "good job". We have "ego trips". Black men measure themselves by "money, amount of girls they got, and possessions". How can you not be narcissistic is the question?

If you was raised in the black community, you would be hard pressed to see a "well off black man" that wasn't narcissistic!

Black women suffer from the same narcissism "because" men validate them primarily by their looks. In particular, Caribbean women who seem obsessed with their looks. Hispanic women are notorious for this. Men never say "damn she looks educated". Basically, we encourage the narcissism.

In conclusion,

All of us are narcissistic to "some degree". But we have to learn to TRY to be humble and appreciative of what we have. Being humble for "black people" is like a sign of weakness when it is really not. Keywords "try to be humble". I have a hard time doing so.

Anonymous said...

@Kid/wGolden Arms

" If these men were not to criticize you, the story would be a "woah is me/Im the victim" hustle."

Which ends up being nothing more than a shakedown for the "good black man's" resources. Its like what Jessie Jackson does or used to do. Accuse "X" company of racism and demand compensation in order to prove otherwise.

Dont fall for it black man. Anytime a black woman talks about a "good black" thats just her post fertility mating call for you to clean up the mess the Alpha bad boy left behind. Its that phone call the woman makes to the nice guy when she gets dumped by the bay boy.

Kigali

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ kigali,

I dig where you are coming from completely.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ "kelli"

"If you don’t side with bm aka kiss ass or in a relationship with one…Menelik basically has it out for you."

proof??







no, just projection...

Menelik Charles said...

Bro Rocky,

thanks for the link. I must say though, what screamed out at me after reading it was: "domineering Jewish mothers!" I mean, just think of the comments, for example, made by Jewish comedians over the years (not least of all Woody Allen), and also how often such mothers speak of their sons (rarely daughters) in golden, almost angelic, terms.

Such women, as Jewish wives will often attest, are a nightmare as mother-in-laws as they seek to spread their maternal tentacles deep into their sons marriages. Is it, thus, any wonder so many Jews become depressed (i.e. neurotic), and seek out therapy (the therapist most likely being a fellow Jew!)?

One of the rarely spoken consequences of all the above (because Jews will rarely write articles, produces tv specials, or make movies about their dirty laundry in a mass media THEY largely control) is that out-marriage among Jews are as high as 50% in the US and the UK!

Rabbis over here are pulling their hair out (I read the U K's Jewish Chronicle) trying to shame and guilt Jews into marrying each other (they even summon up the name of Hitler to this end!) but to little effect. And the root of all of this contemporary, conservative, Jewish angst may well reside in the narcissistic Jewish mother's idealisation of her son, who one day will make a wonderful surgeon, doctor, dentist etc but a tyrannical husband and father (Bernard Madoff, anyone?).

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli said:

Menelik always calls black women married or dating black men (or kissing their asses) brother or sister. He will never call a bw in a relationship with a wm, sister. Kigali is the only one...

Menelik replies:

are you sure Kigali is the only Black woman in a mixed relationship I refer to as sister?

Think very carefully now!

Kelli said:

If you don’t side with bm or are in a relationship with one…Menelik basically has it in for you. Jasmine, Natasha, Julia and a lot of other black females who just so happen to be married/dating a wm can tell you that.

Menelik replies:

you will never provide evidence of me racially abusing any Black women choosing to date or marry white men: impossible!

Provide the necessary links for madams Jasmin and Natasha, and lets all have a look at the sequences of events which has led to this present slur on my character.

I'll wait!

Kelli said:

“YOU HAVE DADDY PROBLEMS!”

Lmao..how many times have I heard it from this creep?

Menelik says:

as many times as I deemed it necessary to say so, I suspect.

Kelli said:

I feel bad for his daughter, she is part of his cult idea for black men and she will grow up programmed to stay under his control.

Menelik says:

glad you care about my daughter's welfare. I guess you feel this way about Black boys too, right?

Kelli said:

Black boys are a lost cause. They are worth no one's time, effort or money...The good ones were born decades ago and no decent ones have been produced since!

I’d rather adopt a damn dog.

Menelik says:

I guess that answers my question, doesn't it? Black boys are lower than dogs in your eyes, right? But anyway, here's what we gather from what you've written thus far: Black women good; Black men bad; Black girls good; Black boys bad.

Correct?

And here's my assessment of you: madam, you absolutely do NOT have any serious unresolved issues with regards your Black father!

Correct?

Now how likely does this assessment sound to you, dear readers?

Menelik Charles
London UK

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

this guy summed it up quite well...

R black men really spewing out hate speech about black women?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3c9r1GiCgU&feature=related

Anonymous said...

Listen, kid. Ask those females and some other and they will all testify to it. I wont sit here and copy and paste myself to death but google Meneliks name and any of those females and trust me, he baits them because they all have wm as a spouse/bf or choice of mate.

Idk how you expect people to even take you seriously when you name is KID with golden arms?

Peter Pan?

Next…

@Menelik
Pretty sure. Kigali isn’t married to a white man and thats different since you have an axe to grind with them and get butt hurt over a bw-wm relationship.
Please…people say it in every other blog. Too many individuals have testified to the behavior and its no coincidence.

You like to bait bw in relationships with wm. Don’t act new and ask for all this evidence because we all know where that went.

Ex: the Thad blog over at Mr.Laurelton Queens blog.
It goes no where and you can act all new if you want but you know what it is.

I feel bad for your daughter.
Hey, listen at least you can train dogs. Black boys cant be trained and all the love and attention doesn’t help them. Not enough attention they become wild animals, too much and they are cocky assholes.

Id take my chances with a dog. At least I can train it, and it will be loyal and obedient.

I don’t have a black father…thank god. My father is a white Hispanic, Puerto Rican to be exact.


-Kelli

btw, Merry Christmas everyone.

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli,

I have stated over and again that it is impossible to find a shred of evidence anywhere on the net showing me racially abusing Black women in relationships with white men! Like you, I have have consistently asked that white boy Thaddeus post links supporting similar assertions, and to date I have heard nothing. Why? Because nothing exists.

Good luck in your search!

What does exist, however, are your hate-filled diatribes against Black men and boys (whom you consider less worthy than dogs!) on this blog. Is this why you're here, Kelli: to spread hatred of Black males for no other reason than the fact we are Black?

Kelli, like I said above: you sure-as-hell don't have issues with your Black daddy!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli,

oh, so your father isn't Black: how very convenient for! So what, pray, is your problem with Black males? Why, for example, your preoccupation with my posts? Have you any idea that you come across like a white "racist"? And that your being on here constitutes a form of racial harassment since you invite nothing but racial disharmony rather than creative, intellectual, conflict?

Kelli, with respect, yeah, I think you have mental health issues relating to your (alleged) bi-racial identity, and specifically to your socially-imposed status as a Black woman. If so, why take it out on Black men? Why are our little boys deemed by you as lower than dogs? Why the hatred, Kelli? And why is it necessary?

You have nothing to do with us on a personal basis (I assume) so why seek us out on the internet? Why not just post at Stormfront, or at LorMarie's blog (she's a Black woman), where your views on Black males are welcome with open, eager, arms?

Just why are you here, Kelli?

Look, whether you're Black or bi-racial (I suspect the former), what cannot be disputed is that you display very clear borderline psychotic traits. Now this need not be a problem to you since the condition cannot be treated, and nor does even it require treatment.

Problems do, however, arise for those who interact with the likes of you since logic is absent in much of what you utter, and so those applying logic to their argument are frequently left feeling angry, frustrated and defeated by what is commonly known in the US as a "crazy maker".

Kelli, people like you don't have any boundaries or a moral core. Thus, I don't expect anything from you in response to this post except more lies, more racial attacks, more psychological projections, and a likely hissy fit, to boot! I cannot, therefore, confidently advise you to go quietly into the Christmas night; to forget all about Black males; to leave them alone to thrive or die, if the case may be; and to spend the coming year in a place of relative peace.

In short, Kelli, I would so hate to have the thoughts in your head since expressing them clearly brings little or no relief from your condition!

Sorry.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Anonymous said...

@Menelik

Isnt it true that the reason there were so many Jewish second wave feminist was because of their inability to compete with WASP women for men? When they were released from the Jewish ghettos their men went straight to the Nordic princesses. Similarly black females anxieties post Jim Crow segregation and the fear of the black man running to snatch up Nordic princesses.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

@Kelli

Physician, Heal thyself.

Nothing more revolting than a pyscho path trying to diagnose others.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

Menelik
I wont copy and paste myself to death.

All the people you hate or either white males or black women with a white male. Even another black dude on here sees you go hard on women for no damn reason.

You get butt hurt over bw with wm.
Like I said,it goes nowhere with you because you are in denial and I feel bad for you because you need Jesus and you need to worry about the black males over in London. YOU ARE NOT AMERICAN!

Its not hate, It’s the truth. People need to stop trying to fix the unfixable.

I don’t care if I come off as a racist. I’m black,I cant be a racist.

My father is Puerto Rican and his race is white, ethnicity is Puerto Rican. Almost 50 percent of Puerto Ricans identify themselves as white.

Black boys are just a waste of time. Every time I see them I think “when are they going to enter prison and how much of my taxes go to their mother, father (in prison or unemployed) and their black asses.”

I usually don’t comment but I had to ask who the fuck cares about black boys? No one has answered the question.

It’s the truth…all of it. Older black males need to stop trying to hide from it because your days are numbered. These younger boys don’t give a shit about you. Some of them would probably kick your ass and call you nigga.

You cant help things that don’t want help and cant be civilized enough to sit down and get it.
Im trying to help you all out because your about to go down like the titanic and you need to ABADON SHIP NOW!

Im not a racist, I happen to care about the welfare of good people. Those good people just don’t include black boys or aggressive black males.

Or those “good” dude who just want to make you a trophy wife for their light skinned fetishes. My mother and father warned me about them.

Im just trying help. bw need not to waste time on black boys. If you don’t want to date outside the race, focus on your daughters and making sure they become something in life.

They have a chance.

good older black guys have kids and will die out. I hope they have girls...like you!

Kelli

Anonymous said...

@Menelik Charles

"Or those “good” dude who just want to make you a trophy wife for their light skinned fetishes. My mother and father warned me about them."

There you have it Menelik. If you wanted to know what all the anger and resent ment is about, she finally got around to saying it.

Kigali

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

Listening to what these women who promote this whole "swirling business" say about black men in relationships reveals alot. Its always "we did x,y and z for black men and got shitted on/ I am this and that while black men are not x and y/ black men used and abused us."

They set themselves up as victims from the beginning and avoid all questions regarding their choices in men. Its a variation of the "where are the good black men" hustle but is focused on getting a non-black man.

These same women only hang around each other and avoid other black women who disagree with them unless they can frame those women as brainwashed or victims.

with respect to the socialization of black boys, its these women who try to spearhead the talk of gender and gender bias in the black community. Its more about trying to control the dialogue and what is said or studied as opposed to finding out the truth here....

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

This whole diatribe about black men aint about black men at all, if it was they would ask us and hope the the raw and uncut dialogue, the barbershop talk. I say barbershop cuz that is where all stripes of black men congregate. Basketball court dialogue applies as well.

This whole shit talking about black men is simply these women complaining about the consequences of their choices, if it wasnt they would not be quick to blame any black man, or the black community (which they try to frame as overall a patriarchy, when its the opposite) or "brainwashed" black women. These women have been saying the same shit for the past 30+ years. Boys see this and shake their heads and get on with their lives, b/c they know it aint about constructive uncut dialogue b/n men and women, its about the women saving face..

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ Kigali,


That sums it up, black women divide themselves along the lines of light or dark,etc,etc ESPECIALLY when they are young children and they carry that bitterness/rejection with them...

lets ignore and forget the fact that in the 80s, light skinned black men were "the shit", in the 90s bald headed diesel dudes were "the shit" and in the early 2000s if a dude was not on some wanna be thug tip he was corny...these women can dish out the bigotry but cant take it....smh...

listening to this dialogue,its always the older women or the younger women who got rejected as kids who are complaining, they need to take their own advice that they tell men, "suck it up."

if these bustdowns dont have a big bad black man to blame they dont have an argument b/c personal accountability becomes the next question...

these are the types of women that the black community unfortunately holds on a pedestal and black boys see this as "the norm."

Anonymous said...

@Kigali
You got some nerve, you hate bw the same way I don’t like black boys.
I love being complimented but at the same time, I hate being objectified and white males don’t see me as a redbone , light skinned with long hair or any other offensive name for light skin.
They see me as a woman. Not some bitch they want to put up shelf and flaunt around for my light skin.
My mother and father warned me that black males will prey on me because of my looks and I shouldn’t settle for them.
Plus why ruin my good genes with them?
Your light skinned also, Im sure blackmales prey on you for your light skinned. You know what Im talking about.


-Kelli

Menelik Charles said...

Bro Rocky & co,

happy Kwanza to you all! It's past 1am over here in the UK and I've just got back from Kwanza celebrations at a local community hall: it was great.

Peace!

Menelik Charles said...

Kid W/G,

funny how so many Black females forget how their very own kid brothers were compelled to sit and listen to mommies, grannies, aunties etc obsessing about light-skin and 'good' hair, without a moments thought at how they were directly grooming future generations of Black men to idealise women possessing these characteristics.

And this grooming occurred long before the big, bad, white mass media got to reinforcing the Black-female promoted colorism of many Black males.

Funny also how these women rarely go to immediate the source of the problem - rather choosing instead to blame the victims of their own matriarchal-family based brainwashing i.e. Black men.

Sometimes I get the feeling many Black women would simply fall apart if they should ever concede the merest of human failings. Perhaps this is why Black men and boys are so often scapegoated by these fragile frauds.

Menelik Charles
London UK

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli said:

Kigali, you got some nerve, you hate Black women the same way I don't like black boys.

Menelik says:

like I said earlier, Kelli, the sorts of thoughts which form in your head are those of a typical borderline psychotic! And to accuse sister Kigali of hating Black women is further evidence of your mental malady.

So Kigali cannot have issues with grown women whose issues are as grand as they are perverse, but you can express an open disdain for defenseless, vulnerable, little Black boys (whom you consider lower than dogs)?

Like I said, Kelli, I would have to have the thoughts in your head!

Menelik Charles
London UK

Anonymous said...

@kelli

I think you are in denial. White men put blonde haired blue eyed women on a pedestal. Light skinned women are to black men what blue eyed blondes are to white men. And every other man I might add. If white men are so indifferent to your lightness why have like skinned people been so much more privileged by white society and why did light skin people in turn take advantage of such privilege and maintain such privileges? Full black women are being replaced in mainstream media. Mainstream media has to
have mass appeal. All the little black girls are getting lighter and more ambiguous looking. White media is placing
biracial women on a pedestal. Always have. Why would
any white man put you on his arm like a trophy? You aren't
a Nordic princess. Stop acting brand new.

Kigali

Btw I am not redbone.

Anonymous said...

@ mention

"So Kigali cannot have issues with grown women whose issues are as grand as they are perverse, but you can express an open disdain for defenseless, vulnerable, little Black boys (whom you consider lower than dogs)?"

Does she think black boys are as culpable as black women? I think "nice white ladies" need to rescue black boys from this. Single black female parenthood is soul destroying for black boys. Death by a thousands cuts.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

Menelik
Your in denial with Kigali, ask anyone on Bossip, Topix and they will tell you.
Von hit it on the head.

She calls dark skinned bw dark butts, among other things, and for someone who seems to prefer them, IM sure you would be mad. I personally don’t care but I do have a heart and I used to work with a dark skinned girl who had fucked up selfesteem. I always felt bad for her. This chick was thirsty for anyone to validate her beauty. Sad life.

I might dislike black boys but I don’t hate them for their skin tone per se.

Im not the first and I wont be the last person to tell you that. EVERYONE that comes into contact with her says the same thing.
Funny thing is she is just as ghetto and aggressive as the black women she complains about.

Just google her comments Menelik. I wont even break to sad news to you, Ill let you do it yourself.
Kigali is not the person you think.
You can call me a racist or whatever but a pretender I am not.

Kelli

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli,

I've read ALL of the lies about sister Kigali, and how her words have been wickedly distorted out of their socio-cultural context by nutters such as Von.

Sorry, woman, but this is a house you will NOT divide!

Happy New Year, all the same lol

Menelik Charles said...

@ Bro Krsone65,

if you're reading this blog, please accept my gratitude for your defence of my character over at Von's blog here

http://blackconsciousthought.blogspot.com/2010/12/dedicated-to-fool-calling-himself-rocky.html

Happy New Year to ya!

Menelik Charles said...

Kelli said:

I might dislike black boys but I don’t hate them for their skin tone per se.

Menelik says:

no, you hate them because of their race, you absurd sociopath!

Rashida said...

Isnt it true that the reason there were so many Jewish second wave feminist was because of their inability to compete with WASP women for men? When they were released from the Jewish ghettos their men went straight to the Nordic princesses. Similarly black females anxieties post Jim Crow segregation and the fear of the black man running to snatch up Nordic princesses.

Kigali, yes this is true. I grew up in NYC on the UWS and had more jewish friends growing up than anything else. Jewish boys always chased the little blond girls on the playground, courted them in Middle School and prayed they'd be able to date on in High School. Have you guys seen The Social Network? There is a scene where Zuckerberg and his friends are at the jewish frat party and they are talking about why they like asian girls and one of the reasons were "they are pretty and they are NOT JEWISH!". The jewish community has tried with sites like J-date and other jewish dating programs to encourage more unions but they are failing. Jewish men do not want to marry their mothers. They do not find jewish women as attractive as non-jewish women. They do not want to deal with their often over-bearing, narcissistic, whiny attitudes.

And yes, Jewish women (especially older women) do the same guilting and shaming that AA women do to black men. "You don't love your mother" - "they only want you for your money" - "they don't really love you" - "your just the nice guy who was willing to marry the blond slut" etc etc etc. The funny thing is a jewish husband can always ask his non-jewish wife to convert. Then he gets to have a jewish family but doesn't get any of the baggage of marrying a jewish woman.

You can look at the Jewish community and see many similarities in dating/mating. Yet where are the Jewish women specials complaining about jewish men picking Becky over them? There are none because Jewish women do not want "outsiders" all up in their business. They protect their image by not broadcasting to the world how all the quality jewish men are leaving them.

I happen to have two jewish male friends (close friends) that are both married to non-jewish women. One is married to a half-white, half-Japanese woman and the other is married to a blond protestant from Kansas. Both men stated the reasons why they did not want to marry a typical jewish woman. Both men mentioned their looks, tendency to gain weight after children, nagging personalities, insecurities when non-jewish women are present, etc.

It's not just successful black men that date out in high numbers. If most men got to have the pick of what type of woman they'd marry, most non-black men would marry someone on the Maxim Hot 100 list. Seeing as how the overwhelming majority of women don't even come close - average guys with average money have no problem finding a wife. Now, why can't average black women find one of those average guys to marry? Is it because she thinks her degree makes her above average and above him? It is because most average BW are NOT marriage-minded and do not even think about marriage until AFTER they have a child OOW? Is it because most black women have an over-inflated self image and think they are much more attractive than they really are and call all non-bw ugly, dog-faced, etc?

Julia M. said...

Kelli, you are out of line.

Dislike black males for whatever reason you want but when you get into hating innocent black boys ,you have crossed the line.

I have nephews and a godson who I love with all my heart and any black son I birth will be loved just as much as them. I don't appreciate it and I am extremely insulted by your comments regarding them.

They are not a worthless causes and they are not to be ignored and forgotten about. Sadly, so many are birthed into homes that despise them due to whatever ongoing issue their mothers might have with the father or vice versa.

I pity some black boys because people don't care and there are sadly too many individuals like yourself who deem them unworthy of love, attention and a chance to grow up happily simply because they are a black male. It's pathetic and you've honestly disgust me beyond words.

I wasn't going to comment and I tied my hands with blogs but your hateful comment brought me out of my shell for a minute.

Please, don't pollute Rocky's blog or the Internet with your comments about black boys. There are enough individuals in America who literally wait to see them fall, when we as blacks began to sit in that stand, there really is no chance of success.

I am going to pray for you. You talk of feeling bad for Menelik's daughter but I feel bad for any child you birthed or might birth. They will have a heart full of hate.

Kigali, I have to disagree with you.

The solution to black boys problems is not "nice white ladies". Young black boys need their mothers and fathers to work together. White females can't fix them and children in general are in need of two parents who can work together. No offense, I don't even think white women or white America cares that much about black children.

An anonymous(Dec 22,201 @5:07 AM) previously stated that black mothers don't have the time to give the attention needed and I agree with her. She made very good points.

As for the mother-daughter bond, it's obvious. A mother and daughter will always have a different bond. My mother had more of a girlfriend bond with me and my sister. My brother never had that with her and in many ways it was beneficial to him because he would have been socially groomed to be feminine due to his mothers feminized relationship with him.

Boys usually have their fathers around to have the kind of guy relationship. My father and brother had a different relationship compared to me and him. I love my dad but he's not someone I can sit down and do my nails with. So while the study is relevant, it excluded the obvious.

Also Rocky, Cuban boys are Latino right? Latino and Black boys are in the same boat when it comes to violence and gang affiliation. In the end, the mothers treatment didn't mean much since the outcome is usually the same.

Overall , we all need to chip in and really work on this. We can't change the lives of every black boy but if everyone worked on our black sons, nephews, godsons or any young boy we are close too, maybe things can change.

-Julia McDaniels

P.S.- I hope everyone has a good New Year!

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@ Menelik

You are right, I hate how these women insert themselves in the middle of any conversation that revolves around how black men can help themselves without consulting black women and take the focus off of our own issues and complaints and put it on theirs. I have seen this happen too many times in the real world. Its high time we handle our own shit for our own sake, not to heal some wounds mommy gave us as infants.

Julia M. said...

**Correction**

"I hope you all have a good New Year".

(That still doesn't sound right to me but whatever.)

Anonymous said...

@Julia,

Thanks for making an appearance. I hope the babies first Christmas was ok. Mine was lame. We made Curry. My husband is a really good cook.

"The solution to black boys problems is not "nice white ladies". Young black boys need their mothers and fathers to work together. White females can't fix them and children in general are in need of two parents who can work together. No offense, I don't even think white women or white America cares that much about black children. "

Girl, I was being facetious.

Anonymous said...

@Rashida

Hey girl.

I was watching Millionaire Match Maker and Patti Stanger, who is Jewish was commenting on how all the Jewish millionaires on the show always ended up with blondes, even when, during their interview stage, they said they wanted a nice Jewish girl.

The Social Network was a good movie for so many reasons.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

@kid/W golden Arms

To be fair, those BWE/IR often complain about black men coming to their sites and taking the focus off of them and onto black men.

I just think that we are better able to deal with it here without getting hysterical is because of the male presence and male character.

Kigali

Anonymous said...

@Menelik Charles

"I've read ALL of the lies about sister Kigali, and how her words have been wickedly distorted out of their socio-cultural context by nutters such as Von."

Ask yourself a few questions.

Do bitter black women have a problem with referring to white women as "Becky?" No
Do they have a problem with referring to black men as "mutants" and "DBRs?" No
Do they have a problem with insulting most black women by calling them "mammies?" No
Do they have a problem with referring to black women who are light skinned as "light bright and dam near white?" No

Yet they have a problem with "dark butt?"

This is the last time I will address this "dark butt" issue.

The female portion of the community can support sexual predators (R.Kelly) and give passes to drug dealers and abusive mothers, CANNOT then harness the male rage of other half of its community to go after some off brand rapper who said he doesnt want to sex up "dark butts."

If black women dont have the forethought to use that same rage against Yung Berg to target actual menaces in the community than they will be "dark butts" in my book.

Kigali

Rocky said...

Julia said: Also Rocky, Cuban boys are Latino right? Latino and Black boys are in the same boat when it comes to violence and gang affiliation. In the end, the mothers treatment didn't mean much since the outcome is usually the same.

Hi Julia. Thank for your input. Here is some interesting information at the link:

"And even in Florida, where Hispanics have been a large fraction of the total population for decades, the white age-adjusted imprisonment rate is still twice as high as the Hispanic rate."

"Furthermore, contrary to official bureaucratic categories, Hispanics are hardly a monolithic ethnic group and actually exhibit large variations in their cultural traditions based on country of origin. The very low Hispanic imprisonment rate in Florida may reflect the considerable economic and social success of the Cuban community centered there."

Menelik Charles said...

Kigali asked:

Menelik,

isn't it true that the reason there were so many Jewish second wave feminist was because of their inability to compete with WASP women for men? When they were released from the Jewish ghettos their men went straight to the Nordic princesses.

Menelik replies:

if this is the case then once again it shows the power of the Jewish-controlled mass media to keep this little known 'fact' (and the ongoing conflict between Jewish men and women) under wraps while using all areas of the mass media to deflect from their internal issues, and instead turn the spotlight on us.

I know from extensive reading of Jewish newspapers and magazines that Jewish men have huge issues with Jewish women they describe in terms familiar to many Black men. Needless to say, at the heart of this conflict is the matriarchal Jewish mother.

Extraordinary!

Rashida said:

The Jewish community has tried with sites like J-date and other jewish dating programs to encourage more unions but they are failing. Jewish men do not want to marry their mothers. They do not find jewish women as attractive as non-jewish women. They do not want to deal with their often over-bearing, narcissistic, whiny attitudes.

Menelik says

wow! This is exactly what this article is hinting at below, and it all seems to come down to the fabled Jewish mother:

"Jewish women having tougher time finding, marrying Jewish men"

http://blogs.evtrib.com/spirituallife/2008/04/04/jewish-women-having-tougher-time-finding-marrying-jewish-men/

Menelik Charles
London UK

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

The next question logically is:since black women and jewish women come from obviously different backgrounds, how did the free slaved descendant black woman gain power as a matriarch in her community? The answer (govt assistance,racism,etc)is kinda obvious but needs to be repeated.

Julia M. said...

Dear Rocky,

Thank you for the link but as stated, it has a lot to do with the social and economic success of Cubans. Which means that the incarceration rate is probably in relation to social and economic standings rather than the amount of attention in the home. Though positive attention contributes, economic and social standings clearly play a bigger role. That is across the board for all races and ethnicities.

Overall, I do feel that Black boys lack the love and attention needed from both parents. Do I believe that Latino boys who might receive more positive attention are at a better standing? Not exactly.

-Julia McDaniels

Julia M. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julia M. said...

Happy New Year, Rocky! :D

Rocky said...

Happy New Year Julia. You're a sweetheart.

Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for the great discussions.

Kid W/Golden Arms said...

@Julia,

I think you are on to something though, latino men still have a network with other latinos due to their tighter family structure. A large number the hustlers and gangsters in Chicago,L.A.,etc do come from single mother homes.

Its a wide generalization,but their tighter family structure (in comparison to black americans) gives them more social support but not economic for obvious reasons.

Menelik Charles said...

Bro Rocky,

here's an interesting website about saving boy children from single parents.

http://boysraisedbysinglemums.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=20

Happy New Year!

Menelik Charles
London UK