Sunday, August 2, 2009

"Are Black Women Teaching Their Daughters to Be Mean?"

I found this interesting post on another blog from about 9 months back and I found it very interesting. Quite often, certain black women will often try to justify the common aggressive attitudes exhibited by many black woman (definitely not all) by saying that such attitudes result from all of the drama they have to go through with black men and the black community in general. The flaw in this is that such attitudes are prevalent at a significantly young age; such an age whereas there have not been enough time for any significant experiences. Thus evidence suggests that these girls don't just develop such attitudes through experiences, but are taught such attitudes. Here is the blog article:

My 4 year old son is attending school for the first time. His school is very diverse and apparently four year olds are very touchy feely little people. They just like to hug. Well, my baby is quite popular with the girls.

We recently went to the Pumpkin Patch and one particular little girl was all over my baby. They were holding hands and hugging. She followed him everywhere he went. On the hay ride there was another little girl that was really upset and very vocal about it. He had not played with her. My son is African American while his chosen playmate of the day was white and the little girl with the attitude was Asian.

Later in the day, I asked my son about the African American girls in his class. I asked him if he played with them. His response has started an ongoing discussion in my family, so I wanted someone else’s opinion. (And I know I will get plenty here!) My smart and intelligent four years old said, “The brown girls are mean. They don’t speak and only want to play with me when I am playing with the other girls.” My husband says that he is right.

What do you think?


What's further interesting are some of the comments:

Comment by Verona Wiltse on October 27, 2008 at 9:42am Yes Kym, I have a 15 year old grandson, he's very tall and handsome. The school that he attend all his life is predominantly white with mixers of Blacks, Asian, Spanish, arabs etc. I have always noticed that the girls that calls or I see him with are White and Spanish. When I asked him about the Black girls in his school, he said and I quote. "Grandma, they are mad scary". When I asked what do you mean by that. He said they are loud in the hallway and always fighting. I try not to look at them, they may want to fight me.
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Comment by KimSyne on November 5, 2008 at 4:19pm I have a 13 year old daughter who has been talked about and mistreated by black girls. The problem is that they don't like or appreciate "different". My daughter has worn dred locks for the last 5 years. These kids said that she was trying to act African. When she talked what they considered "proper", they called her an oreo. They couldn't make up their mind what she was they just knew that she was different
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Comment by Germaine on November 5, 2008 at 5:03pm Yes I know what you mean, I live in an apartment complex where the black girls here walk around in groups. My daughter being new to the city and area trying to make friends was called fake. She is the only one here I see would embrace a white girl and play with her and then as soon as they see this either they try to come play also or just be plain nasty to them throwing rocks and dirt. It has also gone to the point where if there is new black girls and if they see them playing with my daughter they would do anything to interfere with them playing together I get annoyed and when I talk to the parents of the children either they sound uninterested or just smile.
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Comment by alwysaldy on February 23, 2009 at 7:23pm Your 4 year old has a point.
So does the other posters. Children learn by example and by influences at home. I agree children will mirror what they see. I start up conversations in the store in the bank in our neighborhood with "anyone". My daughter sees it and she does the same. My daughter was raised in a very diverse community. Her school was majority white with asian, samoa, hispanic, mid eastern etc. she was the only AA in her classes from pre-school to 2nd grade. From Colorado, to Florida, to California.

My baby is dark complexion. In the whole time she was in school not one child teased her about me or her being different complexions. They asked her if I was her mom and after seeing us together saw she was my twin.

We moved back to CA and she's in a majority AA school, with some hispanics. She is teased, by the AA girls about being a different complexion than her mom. About her hair, when I braid it with conditioner and take it down in the morning for her to wear it crinkled to school. She always got compliments before about her hair. She has been teased about being "real black" with "nappy" hair. I have never asked her if the boys say it. She has always said it is the girls
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Comment by Joan Wright Lewis on July 20, 2009 at 11:00pm
My daughters attend schools that have mostly white students. They tell me the girls that gets into fights and are mean to them are black girls. My oldest said her school was peaceful with just a handful of blacks. Then the following years more blacks came into the school. Now the school hired security guards in the school. She said black girls pick fights with her, and other girls. She now see fights with girls pulling each other weaves out of their heads. They speak very loud and they meet after school to fight someone. For goodness sakes, they are in high school, she said. When are they going to grow up


So the big question is how does this impact the way that boys view them and how these boys will view them when they become men. Note that one of the final disputes Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover had to endure before his suicide was a dispute with a black girl who had threatened him.

Many black men would probably agree that as children, the most intimidating individuals were the black girls. Black girls can be extremely hard on and degrading to young boys. These boys are often quite intimidated by these girls who generally have physically matured earlier and are often bigger. The problem is that once the boys reach puberty and develop testosterone fueled aggressiveness, this intimidation turns into aggressiveness. Thus, you have the often aggressive demeanor many black men have for members of the opposite sex. It is the bi-product of the aggressiveness shown toward them by girls in their youth. Look at the two videos below:

Video 1

Video 2

19 comments:

CPT Callamity said...

I read the original post long time ago and agreed with it. After a stint of teaching in a predominately black suburban high school, I saw this article come to life in so many ways. The girls were far more aggressive than the boys were on any given day. There were more fights related to girls "not getting along" with one another, be it over a boy or the way another was looking at the other. A lot of the young ladies cursed and spoke loudly as a sort of posturing, often to be seen and to intimidate. There were even occasions where girls would be aggressive physically towards boys and engage in fist fights with them.

I predict that there will be some women who will see this blog and use the packaged and primed excuse of "women have to be more aggressive nowadays" and "we have no choice" which further adds to the problem. We spend an inordinate amount of time vilifying young men and suppressing a lot of their natural masculine tendencies, while a lot of the young ladies go without being addressed. It gets worse when in the school environment, when confronted with the mother of these young ladies, you see where the hostility stems from and often times cringe when the "concerned" mother only comes to the school for disciplinary problems. Often times, they will put on more of a spectacle than the daughter...and it's never their fault.

Good post.

Anonymous said...

You can see the boys restraining themselves so that they would not injure the aggressive girls. In this regard, the young lads were quite chivalrous and noble in character.

Girls have terrible drama that continues through adulthood. It's no wonder the boys are afraid of them. It's also not a surprise that these women can't find partners as adults. What boy or man would want to experience this?

True2me said...

great post

Unfortunately I started off as nice and sweet, non aggresive and a "punk"

I grew up in very urban areas and was always different in appearance and demeanor.

When I reached middle school, a girl who was equally pretty but from a rougher neighborhood wanted to fight me simply because I was pretty too. It never stopped there. The aggressiveness, the fighting for some foolishness. I had to eventually adapt and what you have now is an adult trying to escape those overly aggressive actions and behaviors I have had to learn to use due to my environment.

So to answer the question, are black women teaching their daughters to be mean? Perhaps, but its not because they think its "cute", but because they do it out of necessity. Its a survival technique in a urban environment. A survival technique that has been passed down due to the issues that black women have had to go through. Is it an excuse, ..heck no.

We fail to remember we are not that far removed from racism and sexism. It has been hard for black women to deal with both. They had to fight often (and still do) to be treated fairly and not looked at as trash.

I think we do need some healing in the black women's community. The more educated we become (about the attitude problem) the more we can alleviate it and find solutions

True2me

A. Spence said...

I can agree with this. Although, I don't teach this to my daughter, she had developed a toughness about her. I teach her to stand up for herself but always be friendly. When she tells me about kids that pick on each other at school, I'm always making sure to remind her that this is not appropriate behavior and never make it acceptable. I hope my words of "Treat others as you want to be treated" sink in.

I tell her to be nice to everyone. She's in a diverse school and there hadn't been any fights even though there are equal amounts of AA and other races in the school.

I think it comes to how you're raised. I was raised in a multicultural house. My mother from africa and most of her friends from many other countries. I grew up being exposed to 'different' people.

Mr Laurelton Queens said...

Very insightful post.

This is very true. I have noticed this over time that young black girls are becoming more aggressive physically and sexually.

In this small town I see young black girls with strollers and babies. There is like three blocks of them lined up with kids. No older men around at all or the father of the kids.

They call this part of PA "little philly". I guess they attribute this town to a modern day Philadelphia.

The "elite" black women are focused on themselves they don't care about the average uneducated black women struggling. Considering most of them work in the "govt or the medical field".

I knew things were bad when black women use to come to club with mini skirts on and talk with deep ghetto voices. I thought one of them were "DMX".

Obviously, that is why so many of them get involved with thugs. They figure if a thug can beat them down they must love them.

They are increasingly loud for no reason. It is unfortunate for black women that think out of the box are baited into fighting.

It is really no different than what the sellout black girls do. They get a "click" and then force you to believe white men want them. They also speak for white men too. I guess to convince us (black men) that white men want them.

It is truly sad and disturbing. They need to blame themselves.

MRBrown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CPT Callamity said...

If anyone is interested, I would suggest:0
"Women Can't Hear What Men Don't Say: Destroying Myths, Creating Love (Paperback)
by Warren Farrell Ph.D."

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Cant-Hear-What-Dont/dp/1585420611

He points out many of these trends and they changing dynamics between men and women that has been discussed here many of times. Specifically, he addresses the double standard of men and women when it comes to domestic violence and physical aggression.

BlacknDecker said...

Nice Analysis there. I also found that same article a few months ago. I appreciate the strength of the BW brave enough to pose the question. Definitely need more of these challenging questions asked of women (without the coddling/sympathy usu offered to women from the Oprahs) to move ahead cleanly into the future for the BC.

Menelik Charles said...

Hi Bro Rocky,

I find that to answer such questions, it's best to first await the consequences. Clearly the consequences have emerged (time and time again) and so the answer to the question is very probably yes (in many instances).

Remember, the family IS our primary socialisers and many Black women of slave-descent head the family. Consequently, what emerges from it is partly down to them. This is no more true than in how our young sisters OFTEN turn out... mean-spirited, over-bearing, overly out-spoken and fatalistic.

Come to think of it, such women, I understand, are known in the US as "thugettes". Not very feminine if you ask me! But perfect foil for your actual thug lol

Menelik Charles
London England

ps btw I sent a correspondence to your email addy sometime ago re Mrs Daudi. I hope you got it

Rashida said...

Rocky,

I am on the board of a local community organization that works with nlack students in grades K-6. We do a lot of work afterschool and on weekends since most of these kids are COMPLETELY UNSUPERVISED during those hours.

Now, many of the boys and girls come from not only single parent households but non biological parent household i.e. a gramma or Auntie is raising them.

I have noticed that some of the young boys are really quiet and keep to themselves, especially the ones K-2 but even at that young of an age some of the little black girls exhibit really DISTURBIG behaviors.

Some of them are incredibly sexually aggressive (pushing the boys into a corner to "hump" them, making sexually suggestive comments, posing with their hands on their hips and butts sticking out) or they are unbelievably critical of other females. For instance I had one girl tell me that she thought he sister (from different dads) was ugly and bucktoothed and she was only 7 years old! I asked her what "ugly" meant and she said "not pretty like me or my cousin".

Many of these girls are just repeating what they hear from the woemn raising them. Many black women instill a real sense of anger and aggression into female children. I have witnessed this first hand. They yell and scream at these kids like they are mad they exist. They also make them do "grown up" chores like cleaning up after a younger sibling or combing a younger sibling's hair.

Little black girls are being socialized to think of themselves as grown women who have to "fight for things" as soon as they come out of the womb.

This is damaging on so many levels.

This is a really interesting post and observation. I have seen this so much with my own eyes. This is why I don't buy into the "black women are just victims of black male oppression" mantra. Some of these women are BREEDING these girls to be angry, defensive, hostile women.

Anonymous said...

Women demand that men behave as gentlemen, so women should follow their own advice and behave as ladies.

The black boys in the video may have been teenagers, but they behaved as young gentlemen.

These examples in youth speak volumes about the distorted world of venomous females and contradict Sara et al in every way.

Yes, males can be manipulative, but this trait is generally a female one.

Again, who ate the fruit from the forbidden tree? Who lied about it? Crafty, magical manipulation is more often than not a female device.

Rocky said...

Sometimes, white men catch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEfM-13B4Bg

Anonymous said...

I can think of a number of black women (of many shades) who ARE MARRIED or easily find dates. These women are approachable, friendly, AND FEMININE. These women do not lash out physically or verbally. I have never even seen these women place their hands on their hips when talking to men. Such body language would translate to signify aggression.

The more that women verbally assail men, the more likely that men will run away.

When you are threatening, you won't be accepted. Your demeanor speaks for itself - fuming with hate like a rabid wolf! Who wants that?!

Rocky is like a beacon of wisdom in a sea of distortions.

Truth B. Told said...

I don't think they are teaching them to be mean, I think they are not teaching them how to be feminine, which has the same effect.

Of course instead of actually addressing the issue many Black women will only condemn us as "weak males" who are too afraid to compete with other races of men so we need to find fault in Black women.

For that reason, I fear change will not be coming anytime soon.

Menelik Charles said...

Bro truth said:

...instead of actually addressing the issue many Black women will only condemn us as "weak males" who are too afraid to compete with other races of men so we need to find fault in Black women.

For that reason, I fear change will not be coming anytime soon.

Menelik replied:

change may not arrive as soon as we'd like but there are some sure-fires means of bringing about radical change in Black women's (and men's) behaviour, I can positively assure you!

All that remains for the plan to get off the ground is a little networking with the relevant people and BINGO!

I'd love to let on what the long-term plans are but I'm loathed to allow some rogue to stael my ideas via the net lol

Menelik Charles
London England

Anonymous said...

Women are reluctant to admit their faults.

However, men are subject to regular analysis like lab rats for every conceivable pathology.

CPT Callamity said...

Anonymous said...
"Women are reluctant to admit their faults.

However, men are subject to regular analysis like lab rats for every conceivable pathology."

And there lies part of the problem

Boy hits girl = he's a weak punk azzed male
Girl hits boy = she's emotional, strong, a fighter

Boy cries injustice = usually called weak or a punk
Girl call injustice = the world surrounds her, embraces her and asks what's wrong.

I could make the analogies all day, but people fail to see how this is conditioning young men in our society. We coddle the women and attend to most of their whims, but the men are shunned, ridiculed, shamed and have their masculinity attacked on a constant. It has been said that consequences are dealt severly and immediately for men. Women, usually get the delayed reaction...they are never taken to task until later and never forced to acknowledge when they have done any wrong.

Anonymous said...

These kids are EVIL!

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